Discussion:
[NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
(too old to reply)
Ted Roche
2015-08-13 13:57:41 UTC
Permalink
... because you know I had to repost it:

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html

(the author also points out Linux is no fun, either.)

Some good suggestions on alleviating some of the worst frustrations.

I'm looking forward to the first major re-release, tentatively
October, which won't be called Service Pack 1. R2 or rev b or
something? "WindX, the second try?"

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-13 14:03:55 UTC
Permalink
> I'm looking forward to the first major re-release, tentatively
> October, which won't be called Service Pack 1. R2 or rev b or
> something? "WindX, the second try?"

Well,

"Microsoft described Windows 10 as an operating system as a service that
would receive ongoing updates to its features and functionality,
augmented with the ability for enterprise environments to receive
non-critical updates at a slower pace, or use long-term support
milestones that will only receive critical updates, such as security
patches, over their five-year lifespan of mainstream support."

however ...

"Criticism of Windows 10 was directed towards a belief that the
operating system was more limiting in how users could control its
operation; in particular, Windows Update installs all updates
automatically, no longer allows users to selectively install updates,
and only the Pro edition of Windows 10 can "defer" the installation of
"upgrades" for the operating system."

So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
'line in the sand' service packs any more.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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Ted Roche
2015-08-13 14:16:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
> use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
> 'line in the sand' service packs any more.
>

Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
some client work.

>From what I understand, from a marketing perspective, there will not
be something called "Service Pack 1" but that is a marketing message
and not the reality that there's going to be a mess of patches over
the first couple of months, and the idea that MS is saving up a big
batch of them cleanly integrated together plus some features that
didn't make the first release for a more carefully controlled release
*not called Service Pack One* just seems like good engineering
practices..


--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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Fernando D. Bozzo
2015-08-13 14:46:05 UTC
Permalink
The solution is very simple : just use Linux as main OS and use Win10 only
in VirtualBox, as I do. This way you can use Windows only for some work
necessities and Linux for the rest.

It's the safest choice, plus you can make snapshots of Virtual machines
just in case you need to recover something.
El 13/8/2015 4:16 p. m., "Ted Roche" <***@gmail.com> escribió:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> >
> > So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
> > use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
> > 'line in the sand' service packs any more.
> >
>
> Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
> MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
> install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
> a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
> prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
> to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
> some client work.
>
> >From what I understand, from a marketing perspective, there will not
> be something called "Service Pack 1" but that is a marketing message
> and not the reality that there's going to be a mess of patches over
> the first couple of months, and the idea that MS is saving up a big
> batch of them cleanly integrated together plus some features that
> didn't make the first release for a more carefully controlled release
> *not called Service Pack One* just seems like good engineering
> practices..
>
>
> --
> Ted Roche
> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
> http://www.tedroche.com
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-13 17:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Has anyone tried isolating 10 from the web for a couple of months (as in
a VM)?
Would be nice to see if it complains. In a VM you could surf from within
your host.

On 13/08/15 11:46, Fernando D. Bozzo wrote:
> The solution is very simple : just use Linux as main OS and use Win10 only
> in VirtualBox, as I do. This way you can use Windows only for some work
> necessities and Linux for the rest.
>
> It's the safest choice, plus you can make snapshots of Virtual machines
> just in case you need to recover something.
> El 13/8/2015 4:16 p. m., "Ted Roche" <***@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm>
>> wrote:
>>> So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
>>> use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
>>> 'line in the sand' service packs any more.
>>>
>> Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
>> MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
>> install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
>> a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
>> prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
>> to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
>> some client work.
>>
>> >From what I understand, from a marketing perspective, there will not
>> be something called "Service Pack 1" but that is a marketing message
>> and not the reality that there's going to be a mess of patches over
>> the first couple of months, and the idea that MS is saving up a big
>> batch of them cleanly integrated together plus some features that
>> didn't make the first release for a more carefully controlled release
>> *not called Service Pack One* just seems like good engineering
>> practices..
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ted Roche
>> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
>> http://www.tedroche.com
>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Fernando D. Bozzo
2015-08-13 18:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Well, I've not tried because my VM is connected to Internet, but I can try
that to see what happens.



2015-08-13 19:54 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Araoz <***@gmail.com>:

> Has anyone tried isolating 10 from the web for a couple of months (as in a
> VM)?
> Would be nice to see if it complains. In a VM you could surf from within
> your host.
>
>
> On 13/08/15 11:46, Fernando D. Bozzo wrote:
>
>> The solution is very simple : just use Linux as main OS and use Win10 only
>> in VirtualBox, as I do. This way you can use Windows only for some work
>> necessities and Linux for the rest.
>>
>> It's the safest choice, plus you can make snapshots of Virtual machines
>> just in case you need to recover something.
>> El 13/8/2015 4:16 p. m., "Ted Roche" <***@gmail.com> escribió:
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
>>>> use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
>>>> 'line in the sand' service packs any more.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
>>> MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
>>> install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
>>> a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
>>> prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
>>> to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
>>> some client work.
>>>
>>> >From what I understand, from a marketing perspective, there will not
>>> be something called "Service Pack 1" but that is a marketing message
>>> and not the reality that there's going to be a mess of patches over
>>> the first couple of months, and the idea that MS is saving up a big
>>> batch of them cleanly integrated together plus some features that
>>> didn't make the first release for a more carefully controlled release
>>> *not called Service Pack One* just seems like good engineering
>>> practices..
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ted Roche
>>> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
>>> http://www.tedroche.com
>>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Stephen Russell
2015-08-13 15:32:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> >
> > So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
> > use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
> > 'line in the sand' service packs any more.
> >
>
> Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
> MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
> install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
> a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
> prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
> to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
> some client work.
> ----------
>

When I exchange Google and Chrome for M$ and 10 I see little difference
these days. Chrome shuffles in anything and everything and everyone just
gets over it.


> >From what I understand, from a marketing perspective, there will not
> be something called "Service Pack 1" but that is a marketing message
> and not the reality that there's going to be a mess of patches over
> the first couple of months, and the idea that MS is saving up a big
> batch of them cleanly integrated together plus some features that
> didn't make the first release for a more carefully controlled release
> *not called Service Pack One* just seems like good engineering
> practices..
> --------------


If they slip in all the fixes as needed instead of waiting for the user to
accept them Windows 10 might be on a much more stable footing than it ever
has been. Problem I have with Chrome is that an update when I first turn
the tablet on overwhelms the device and makes me want to toss out a piece
of crap. #1 frustration with my ASUS tablet is not being able to use it
when I want to.



--
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


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Alan Bourke
2015-08-13 21:22:52 UTC
Permalink
You can certainly use other browsers. However it will make Edge the
default even if you upgraded from an earlier version of Windows where
you had something other than IE as the default. Which is kinda sneaky.
Edge is pretty good though, if unfinished, and there is some level of
consternation that it doesn't support ActiveX any more. Luckily, IE 11
is still there if you need that.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015, at 03:20 PM, Allen wrote:
> Are you saying the Hosts file no longer works?
> You can still use other browsers from what I hear.
> Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
> MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
> install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
> a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
> prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
> to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
> some client work.
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Dan Covill
2015-08-14 00:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Yes, it will make Edge the default, and will not honor an attempt to make FireFox
the default by clicking in FireFox.

You can, however, select Settings> System> Default Apps, then scroll down to
Browser, and set FireFox as the default there.

Dan Covill

----------------------------------------
> From: ***@fastmail.fm
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:22:52 +0100
>
> You can certainly use other browsers. However it will make Edge the
> default even if you upgraded from an earlier version of Windows where
> you had something other than IE as the default. Which is kinda sneaky.
> Edge is pretty good though, if unfinished, and there is some level of
> consternation that it doesn't support ActiveX any more. Luckily, IE 11
> is still there if you need that.
>
> --
> Alan Bourke
> alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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Ted Roche
2015-08-14 00:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Hosts file... I had read there were issues,but that appears to be a red herring.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Allen <***@gatwicksoftware.com> wrote:
> Are you saying the Hosts file no longer works?
> You can still use other browsers from what I hear.
> Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
> MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
> install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
> a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
> prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
> to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
> some client work.
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-14 08:29:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015, at 01:36 AM, Ted Roche wrote:
> Hosts file... I had read there were issues,but that appears to be a red
> herring.

Having upgraded two laptops without issue I would say that it appears to
be what I assumed it would be, which is largely Windows 8.5 with a
re-engineered UI.

Pros:
Fast to start and resume.

Not forced into a touch-centric UI if you're not on a touch device.

Common platform across desktop and mobile.

DirectX 12 - good for gamers.

Cons:
Kind of unfinished in some areas.

Outrageous data slurp default settings - the first thing anyone should
do post-install is read up on how to stop it phoning everything home.

Slightly schizophrenic regarding settings - some things are in a modern
'app' type thing, some are the old familiar dialogs that have been there
since XP.

Family Safety gone with no replacement yet.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Ted Roche
2015-08-14 18:02:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 4:29 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> Outrageous data slurp default settings - the first thing anyone should
> do post-install is read up on how to stop it phoning everything home.
>

"Even when told not to, Windows 10 just can’t stop talking to Microsoft"

http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

This is a real concern.It's annoying but tolerable, to find ads
following you across the internet (this week, it's bike parts and John
Deere tractors), but it's completely unacceptable that you can't do
some research on local recent events or a disease a distant relative
has. without a concern it somehow gets added without context to your
"permanent record," free to be browsed by police departments,
potential employers, insurance companies, and anyone willing to pay a
few dollars to look you up.

The internet is not anonymous, it never has been, but the level of
active collection of Big Data is reaching disturbing levels.

The recent flap with Lenovo spyware, slip-streaming software onto your
copy of Windows without your knowledge nor consent, via a "feature" of
the BIOS approved by Microsoft, makes the platform deeply
untrustworthy, imo. This isn't the spyware/adware SuperFish earlier in
the year, this is a new bug, likely industry-wide:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/

"What is worrying is that all of this is pretty much what Microsoft
intended. Its WPBT is engineered to allow manufacturers to painlessly
inject drivers and programs into the operating system. "

Wait, what?

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
2015-08-14 19:09:23 UTC
Permalink
On 2015-08-14 14:02, Ted Roche wrote:
> <snipped> ... free to be browsed by police departments,
> potential employers, insurance companies, and anyone willing to pay a
> few dollars to look you up.


That seems very paranoid and I seriously doubt likely to happen. Am I
being too naive?

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Vince Teachout
2015-08-14 19:23:02 UTC
Permalink
On 8/14/2015 3:09 PM, ***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:
> On 2015-08-14 14:02, Ted Roche wrote:
>> <snipped> ... free to be browsed by police departments,
>> potential employers, insurance companies, and anyone willing to pay a
>> few dollars to look you up.
>
>
> That seems very paranoid and I seriously doubt likely to happen. Am I
> being too naive?

In my opinion, yes.


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Stephen Russell
2015-08-14 19:29:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Vince Teachout <***@taconic.net> wrote:

> On 8/14/2015 3:09 PM, ***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:
>
>> On 2015-08-14 14:02, Ted Roche wrote:
>>
>>> <snipped> ... free to be browsed by police departments,
>>> potential employers, insurance companies, and anyone willing to pay a
>>> few dollars to look you up.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That seems very paranoid and I seriously doubt likely to happen. Am I
>> being too naive?
>>
>
> In my opinion, yes.
>
> --------------



Considering everything that is available about you today in is not an OS
that is doing it. Google is the most passionate about selling your digital
soul.



--
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-14 20:16:29 UTC
Permalink
True, but at least I know google is selling my queries.
On the other hand the OS may sell......


On 14/08/15 16:29, Stephen Russell wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Vince Teachout <***@taconic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/14/2015 3:09 PM, ***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-08-14 14:02, Ted Roche wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snipped> ... free to be browsed by police departments,
>>>> potential employers, insurance companies, and anyone willing to pay a
>>>> few dollars to look you up.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That seems very paranoid and I seriously doubt likely to happen. Am I
>>> being too naive?
>>>
>> In my opinion, yes.
>>
>> --------------
>
>
> Considering everything that is available about you today in is not an OS
> that is doing it. Google is the most passionate about selling your digital
> soul.
>
>
>


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Ted Roche
2015-08-17 18:23:44 UTC
Permalink
Just in case you are just joining this thread, already in progress, I
want to point out that "Windows 10 Sucks" was an article title, and
not the personal nor professional opinion of the humble original
poster, moi.

Windows 10 is "where you want to go today" if you're on the MS
bandwagon, or being dragged along, kicking and screaming, by your
clients. I have no doubt we'll be receiving support calls soon from
clients who are running brand-new machines who may or may not be aware
they're running Windows 10. "Yeah, but that doesn't make any
difference to you, does it?" I'm just hoping for a heads-up if there's
a new font technology, screen enhancement (Aero, for example),
directory changes (abandoning Program Files, for example, or finding
things moved to User/xxxx/LocalSettings), ODBC changes, etc. that
might break the many apps we have out in the field.

Any help would be appreciated.

Before we slip off into OT-land with privacy and such, getting back on
the "Windows 10 Issues" track, ZDNet was busy over the weekend,

Woody Leonhard (the owner of the "Hacker's Guide" trademark, and a
mentor on our first HackFox book) looks into his crystal ball and
prognosticates: "The first six changes Microsoft will make to Windows
10" (Prognosticate is latin for "make stuff up in the slow two weeks
before Labor Day," I think, though I am no scholar):

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2957313/microsoft-windows/the-first-6-changes-microsoft-will-make-to-windows-10.html

"Microsoft quietly rewrites its activation rules for Windows 10"
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-rewrites-its-activation-rules-for-windows-10/

(This would be nice if done the right way, which I doubt MS would do.
I needed to rebuild two machines over the weekend that were originally
Action Pack OSes. The old activation keys would no longer work,
leaving me in a tough spot, with OSes no longer the current supported
ones, nor were keys for sale from MS. Complete Freemanize (tm) and
reinstall from scratch, restore from backups. I miss the old MSDN at a
reasonable price and with far more reasonable restrictions. Activation
screws over the unlucky, while pirateers no doubt can work around it.)

"Windows 10 makes diagnostic data collection compulsory"

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2968288/microsoft-windows/windows-10-makes-diagnostic-data-collection-compulsory.html

Because, you know, what you're doing on your machine, when you're
doing it, and how long you worked on any particular document, as well
as random bits of documents, data, bookmarks, shortcuts, clipboard
contents, etc. are helpful to Microsoft, and whichever "partners" they
choose to share it with.

This sounds like it should automatically disqualify Windows for any
confidential work: HIPAA, stock trading, banking, government work,
etc.

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Jeff Johnson
2015-08-17 21:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Ted

On 8/17/2015 11:23 AM, Ted Roche wrote:
> Just in case you are just joining this thread, already in progress, I
> want to point out that "Windows 10 Sucks" was an article title, and
> not the personal nor professional opinion of the humble original
> poster, moi.
>
> Windows 10 is "where you want to go today" if you're on the MS
> bandwagon, or being dragged along, kicking and screaming, by your
> clients. I have no doubt we'll be receiving support calls soon from
> clients who are running brand-new machines who may or may not be aware
> they're running Windows 10. "Yeah, but that doesn't make any
> difference to you, does it?" I'm just hoping for a heads-up if there's
> a new font technology, screen enhancement (Aero, for example),
> directory changes (abandoning Program Files, for example, or finding
> things moved to User/xxxx/LocalSettings), ODBC changes, etc. that
> might break the many apps we have out in the field.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Before we slip off into OT-land with privacy and such, getting back on
> the "Windows 10 Issues" track, ZDNet was busy over the weekend,
>
> Woody Leonhard (the owner of the "Hacker's Guide" trademark, and a
> mentor on our first HackFox book) looks into his crystal ball and
> prognosticates: "The first six changes Microsoft will make to Windows
> 10" (Prognosticate is latin for "make stuff up in the slow two weeks
> before Labor Day," I think, though I am no scholar):
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2957313/microsoft-windows/the-first-6-changes-microsoft-will-make-to-windows-10.html
>
> "Microsoft quietly rewrites its activation rules for Windows 10"
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-rewrites-its-activation-rules-for-windows-10/
>
> (This would be nice if done the right way, which I doubt MS would do.
> I needed to rebuild two machines over the weekend that were originally
> Action Pack OSes. The old activation keys would no longer work,
> leaving me in a tough spot, with OSes no longer the current supported
> ones, nor were keys for sale from MS. Complete Freemanize (tm) and
> reinstall from scratch, restore from backups. I miss the old MSDN at a
> reasonable price and with far more reasonable restrictions. Activation
> screws over the unlucky, while pirateers no doubt can work around it.)
>
> "Windows 10 makes diagnostic data collection compulsory"
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2968288/microsoft-windows/windows-10-makes-diagnostic-data-collection-compulsory.html
>
> Because, you know, what you're doing on your machine, when you're
> doing it, and how long you worked on any particular document, as well
> as random bits of documents, data, bookmarks, shortcuts, clipboard
> contents, etc. are helpful to Microsoft, and whichever "partners" they
> choose to share it with.
>
> This sounds like it should automatically disqualify Windows for any
> confidential work: HIPAA, stock trading, banking, government work,
> etc.
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-17 23:02:55 UTC
Permalink
We've had a few mom and pop customers, i.e. not on Pro and corporate
licencing, that have self upgraded. Core VFP9 seems fine in terms of our
product.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


On Mon, 17 Aug 2015, at 07:23 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> Just in case you are just joining this thread, already in progress, I
> want to point out that "Windows 10 Sucks" was an article title, and
> not the personal nor professional opinion of the humble original
> poster, moi.
>
> Windows 10 is "where you want to go today" if you're on the MS
> bandwagon, or being dragged along, kicking and screaming, by your
> clients. I have no doubt we'll be receiving support calls soon from
> clients who are running brand-new machines who may or may not be aware
> they're running Windows 10. "Yeah, but that doesn't make any
> difference to you, does it?" I'm just hoping for a heads-up if there's
> a new font technology, screen enhancement (Aero, for example),
> directory changes (abandoning Program Files, for example, or finding
> things moved to User/xxxx/LocalSettings), ODBC changes, etc. that
> might break the many apps we have out in the field.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Before we slip off into OT-land with privacy and such, getting back on
> the "Windows 10 Issues" track, ZDNet was busy over the weekend,
>
> Woody Leonhard (the owner of the "Hacker's Guide" trademark, and a
> mentor on our first HackFox book) looks into his crystal ball and
> prognosticates: "The first six changes Microsoft will make to Windows
> 10" (Prognosticate is latin for "make stuff up in the slow two weeks
> before Labor Day," I think, though I am no scholar):
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2957313/microsoft-windows/the-first-6-changes-microsoft-will-make-to-windows-10.html
>
> "Microsoft quietly rewrites its activation rules for Windows 10"
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-rewrites-its-activation-rules-for-windows-10/
>
> (This would be nice if done the right way, which I doubt MS would do.
> I needed to rebuild two machines over the weekend that were originally
> Action Pack OSes. The old activation keys would no longer work,
> leaving me in a tough spot, with OSes no longer the current supported
> ones, nor were keys for sale from MS. Complete Freemanize (tm) and
> reinstall from scratch, restore from backups. I miss the old MSDN at a
> reasonable price and with far more reasonable restrictions. Activation
> screws over the unlucky, while pirateers no doubt can work around it.)
>
> "Windows 10 makes diagnostic data collection compulsory"
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2968288/microsoft-windows/windows-10-makes-diagnostic-data-collection-compulsory.html
>
> Because, you know, what you're doing on your machine, when you're
> doing it, and how long you worked on any particular document, as well
> as random bits of documents, data, bookmarks, shortcuts, clipboard
> contents, etc. are helpful to Microsoft, and whichever "partners" they
> choose to share it with.
>
> This sounds like it should automatically disqualify Windows for any
> confidential work: HIPAA, stock trading, banking, government work,
> etc.
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Mike Copeland
2015-08-17 23:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Alan Bourke wrote:
> We've had a few mom and pop customers, i.e. not on Pro and corporate
> licencing, that have self upgraded. Core VFP9 seems fine in terms of our
> product.
>
> -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
Same here...I have a VFP9 SP2 application that uses ActiveX extensively,
with MariaDB SQL backend (ODBC connected) along with SMTP functionality
and Windows Scripting Host code.

Win 10 Pro works quite well, possibly faster than Win7.

Mike Copeland

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Ted Roche
2015-08-18 11:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Doug Hennig had tweeted that he had updated one of this workstations
and everything went well. Let's cross our fingers and hope it survives
the updates :)

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
> Alan Bourke wrote:
>>
>> We've had a few mom and pop customers, i.e. not on Pro and corporate
>> licencing, that have self upgraded. Core VFP9 seems fine in terms of our
>> product.
>>
>> -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
> Same here...I have a VFP9 SP2 application that uses ActiveX extensively,
> with MariaDB SQL backend (ODBC connected) along with SMTP functionality and
> Windows Scripting Host code.
>
> Win 10 Pro works quite well, possibly faster than Win7.
>
> Mike Copeland
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Kurt Wendt
2015-08-18 13:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Hey there Ted,

I completely understand about your posting this original thread as Info - and not your personal opinion.

My main CG workstation at home has Win7. And, I have been wondering about the whole upgrade to Win10. The author actually claimed " Microsoft has two great modern OSes: Windows XP and Windows 7 ". This leads me to believe that maybe I should just Stick w/Win7 and I will be fine. Win7 does what I need, for the most part it just works. Although - I will admit - my workstation has been having BSOD's for a while now. I even spoke to folks at BOXX this past week while at SIGGraph (the big Graphics conf.) - and they suggested I contact them for support - even though my machine is like 2 years old now.

One comment the author made, really makes me wary about Win10: " As if it wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people absolutely do not need."

Is he serious? Does that mean at some point my Win7 machine will Automatically Upgrade itself - without my permission - to being Win10? Or - does it just mean that it does the full download of the Install - but, only RUNS the Install when I decide to actually Upgrade the OS? I suspect it's the later...

-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 2:24 PM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Just in case you are just joining this thread, already in progress, I want to point out that "Windows 10 Sucks" was an article title, and not the personal nor professional opinion of the humble original poster, moi.

Windows 10 is "where you want to go today" if you're on the MS bandwagon, or being dragged along, kicking and screaming, by your clients. I have no doubt we'll be receiving support calls soon from clients who are running brand-new machines who may or may not be aware they're running Windows 10. "Yeah, but that doesn't make any difference to you, does it?" I'm just hoping for a heads-up if there's a new font technology, screen enhancement (Aero, for example), directory changes (abandoning Program Files, for example, or finding things moved to User/xxxx/LocalSettings), ODBC changes, etc. that might break the many apps we have out in the field.

Any help would be appreciated.

Before we slip off into OT-land with privacy and such, getting back on the "Windows 10 Issues" track, ZDNet was busy over the weekend,

Woody Leonhard (the owner of the "Hacker's Guide" trademark, and a mentor on our first HackFox book) looks into his crystal ball and
prognosticates: "The first six changes Microsoft will make to Windows 10" (Prognosticate is latin for "make stuff up in the slow two weeks before Labor Day," I think, though I am no scholar):

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2957313/microsoft-windows/the-first-6-changes-microsoft-will-make-to-windows-10.html

"Microsoft quietly rewrites its activation rules for Windows 10"
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-rewrites-its-activation-rules-for-windows-10/

(This would be nice if done the right way, which I doubt MS would do.
I needed to rebuild two machines over the weekend that were originally Action Pack OSes. The old activation keys would no longer work, leaving me in a tough spot, with OSes no longer the current supported ones, nor were keys for sale from MS. Complete Freemanize (tm) and reinstall from scratch, restore from backups. I miss the old MSDN at a reasonable price and with far more reasonable restrictions. Activation screws over the unlucky, while pirateers no doubt can work around it.)

"Windows 10 makes diagnostic data collection compulsory"

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2968288/microsoft-windows/windows-10-makes-diagnostic-data-collection-compulsory.html

Because, you know, what you're doing on your machine, when you're doing it, and how long you worked on any particular document, as well as random bits of documents, data, bookmarks, shortcuts, clipboard contents, etc. are helpful to Microsoft, and whichever "partners" they choose to share it with.

This sounds like it should automatically disqualify Windows for any confidential work: HIPAA, stock trading, banking, government work, etc.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Richard Kaye
2015-08-18 13:59:17 UTC
Permalink
If you've got the home version there's probably a little teaser sitting in your system tray to upgrade to W10. At least that's what I saw on my wife's laptop last night while I was doing some home IT.

--

rk
-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Wendt
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:51 AM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: RE: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Hey there Ted,

I completely understand about your posting this original thread as Info - and not your personal opinion.

My main CG workstation at home has Win7. And, I have been wondering about the whole upgrade to Win10. The author actually claimed " Microsoft has two great modern OSes: Windows XP and Windows 7 ". This leads me to believe that maybe I should just Stick w/Win7 and I will be fine. Win7 does what I need, for the most part it just works. Although - I will admit - my workstation has been having BSOD's for a while now. I even spoke to folks at BOXX this past week while at SIGGraph (the big Graphics conf.) - and they suggested I contact them for support - even though my machine is like 2 years old now.

One comment the author made, really makes me wary about Win10: " As if it wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people absolutely do not need."

Is he serious? Does that mean at some point my Win7 machine will Automatically Upgrade itself - without my permission - to being Win10? Or - does it just mean that it does the full download of the Install - but, only RUNS the Install when I decide to actually Upgrade the OS? I suspect it's the later...

-K-


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Ted Roche
2015-08-18 14:25:42 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Richard Kaye <***@invaluable.com> wrote:
> If you've got the home version there's probably a little teaser sitting in your system tray to upgrade to W10. At least that's what I saw on my wife's laptop last night while I was doing some home IT.
>

Works for the Pro versions, too. If you download the optional updates
(assuming you don't have updates installed automatically), a little
Windows flag icon appears in the lower right tray, "Register for your
free upgrade" or something, it says. If you register, eventually the
message changes to "Schedule your upgrade." I mistakenly registered
quickly, thinking this might be an offer that gets withdrawn and
wanting to find out what trouble my clients would get themselves into.
Now, every time I start the machine, or resume after the screen's
blanked, I get the "Schedule your update now!" which takes you to a
Windows Update window, and there doesn't seem to be a way to
"schedule" the update for December :)

I have an old, old graphics card in one Windows 8.1 machine that will
likely never be supported, but the icon still hangs around.

A second machine, the teeny ASUS Transformer, likely doesn't have the
3 Gb free and I'm getting an obscure installer error message. At
least, that's my guess about the error:

https://twitter.com/tedroche/status/632640360192311296

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Paul Hill
2015-08-18 21:22:34 UTC
Permalink
On 18 August 2015 at 15:25, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have an old, old graphics card in one Windows 8.1 machine that will
> likely never be supported, but the icon still hangs around.

It will probably work fine. The driver model hasn't changed in ages (Vista?).
After upgrading you have 1 month to roll back.

YMMV. Make a backup :-)

>From personal experience it works great.

--
Paul

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Ted Roche
2015-08-19 14:05:25 UTC
Permalink
It might not, the machine is at least 8 years old, a Dell Workstation
(Optiplex 745) with an oddball ATI card. Took forever to find a driver
on the internet and get it working, and I'm pretty sure it was an
ancient driver.

The Windows 10 setup prompts something like "let's check if your
machine is compatible" and reports it is not.

I'm sure I could get it limping along with generic SVGA drivers or
something. Or I could just pick up a whiz-bang recent card from NewEgg
for $33 or so. And RAM. And a new big HDD. Or I could just retire the
machine :)


On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Paul Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18 August 2015 at 15:25, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have an old, old graphics card in one Windows 8.1 machine that will
>> likely never be supported, but the icon still hangs around.
>
> It will probably work fine. The driver model hasn't changed in ages (Vista?).
> After upgrading you have 1 month to roll back.
>
> YMMV. Make a backup :-)
>
> >From personal experience it works great.
>
> --
> Paul
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-08-22 22:20:57 UTC
Permalink
And the next Win10 revelation:

'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-23 08:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Largely FUD I would guess.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015, at 11:20 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> And the next Win10 revelation:
>
> 'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-08-23 12:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, I was cynical, too. The "article" comes with the primateur of
the forbes domain, but I think essentially it's a blog, and the
commentary is pretty speculative, IOW, likely not reviewed and without
the journalism/editorial requirements of Forbes the magazine.

The TOS certainly seems over-reaching, and it's a new right claimed
by MS, as far as I know, but I suspect it's an extension of what
they've been enforcing for XBox, so maybe this is more merging the
phone-tablet-desktop-apps platforms into one steaming mess.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Largely FUD I would guess.
>
> --
> Alan Bourke
> alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2015, at 11:20 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
>> And the next Win10 revelation:
>>
>> 'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes
>>
>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/
>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-23 16:45:22 UTC
Permalink
I don't even know if it's been used on Xbox much. The 360 is non-trivial
to get working with pirated games, and the One remains unhacked.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


On Sun, 23 Aug 2015, at 01:51 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> Yeah, I was cynical, too. The "article" comes with the primateur of
> the forbes domain, but I think essentially it's a blog, and the
> commentary is pretty speculative, IOW, likely not reviewed and without
> the journalism/editorial requirements of Forbes the magazine.
>
> The TOS certainly seems over-reaching, and it's a new right claimed
> by MS, as far as I know, but I suspect it's an extension of what
> they've been enforcing for XBox, so maybe this is more merging the
> phone-tablet-desktop-apps platforms into one steaming mess.
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> > Largely FUD I would guess.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Bourke
> > alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
> >
> > On Sat, 22 Aug 2015, at 11:20 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> >> And the next Win10 revelation:
> >>
> >> 'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes
> >>
> >> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/
> >>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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John Weller
2015-08-23 16:04:03 UTC
Permalink
I've been using Windows 10 for a couple of weeks and not had any problems -
but then I don't use pirated software :-)

John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631


>
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2015, at 11:20 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> > And the next Win10 revelation:
> >
> > 'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes
> >
> > http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-
> pirated-software-searches/
> >


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Ted Roche
2015-08-23 16:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
"false positives" where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
pirated and disable it.

Oops, there I go, going On-Topic again :)

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 12:04 PM, John Weller <***@johnweller.co.uk> wrote:
> I've been using Windows 10 for a couple of weeks and not had any problems -
> but then I don't use pirated software :-)
>
> John Weller
> 01380 723235
> 07976 393631
>
>
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2015, at 11:20 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
>> > And the next Win10 revelation:
>> >
>> > 'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes
>> >
>> > http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-
>> pirated-software-searches/
>> >
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Dan Covill
2015-08-24 04:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Little late on this, but I just spent 5 days in the hospital a bit unexpectedly.

As others said, not a particularly authoritative article, but have to agree with posters point
that MS is stunningly un-forthcoming about making you sign agreements before giving
you any clue about the content.

This seems to me to be quite similar to the great addition of Bing search in Windows 7, which
was somewhat later revealed to be primarily an ad sales engine, with the users agreeing in
advance to the collection and use of all search and location history.

Dan Covill

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:20:57 -0400
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
> From: ***@gmail.com
> To: ***@leafe.com
>
> And the next Win10 revelation:
>
> 'Free' Windows 10 Makes Expensive Software Changes
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/
>


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Ted Roche
2015-08-31 17:45:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Allen <***@gatwicksoftware.com> wrote:
> I have an acer laptop and a desktop here that both said no to video drivers.
> Desktop easy, get a new video card. Not so easy with the laptop. However
> removing the drivers put the laptop on windows drivers and they updated ok.
> What will stop you is the processor. It needs to be minimum P4 D (intel
> wise) and I have a machine with a processor prior to that. I could upgrade
> the processor but that means motherboard as well. Plus I still dont know if
> the video card will work. All in all not worth the bother for an old
> desktop. Plus some things stopped working with 8, like bluesky's html help.
> Not tried with 10 yet.

Pretty much my situation, too:

Dell Optiplex 745, Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz, 2 Gb RAM, 75 Gb hdd, ATI X1300 Pro card.

I'd pretty much want to drop $80 for 8 Gb RAM, a 1 TB hdd for $50 or
so, and $35 for a cheap workable XGA card for $165 total.

And then, of course, I'd have to deal with Windows activation, since
changing that many parts obviously means I'm some sort of criminal
trying to hack my way to a free Windows license, grrr.

This weekend's NewEgg special was a 3 GHz Dell Optiplex 755, 8 Gb, 1
Tb hdd, for $129.

Just doesn't make economic sense.

Of course, that's trading an old machine you know works for an old
machine that might not. Too marginal there, I'd like move up a model
number or three.

> So don't give up just yet on the PC, it could be as simple as removing the
> drivers. One note though, the check seems to be a monthly thing. So even
> changing the drivers or card will not show up. In that case use the media
> tool. It will download and install windows 10. Don't do ISO, my sister did
> and it said her windows ID was wrong.

At a minimum, RAM needs to be boosted. 2Gb was fine when I just needed
to run a thing or two on Win7, but as the project expands, the
resource demands do, too.

NewEgg sent along a coupon for memory this AM so I may just do that,
and leave WIndows 10 for the next machine.

I have one Wind-X box for testing and will likely retire this old one
at Win8.1.

It's likely my next purchase will be a fairly beefy desktop so I can
run Linux as host and a couple of Win boxes as VMs when needed. A
couple of quad-cores and 32 Gb of memory ought do to it, don't you
think?

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Ted Roche
2015-09-14 14:52:31 UTC
Permalink
"How to Uninstall 23 Apps You Didn't Know You Had" sure sounds like
clickbait to me, but the article is interesting:

http://www.itworld.com/article/2983665/windows-apps/how-to-uninstall-default-windows-10-apps-you-never-knew-you-had.html

My Win10 beef of the week (bearing in mind it's only Monday ;) Over
the weekend, IE decided it was the default PDF viewer, and not the
Adobe app I had been using for some time. I had a LOT of problems with
the PDF.js viewer in FireFox, and the PDF viewer in Chrome just can't
reliably nor consistently print PDFs, so I've pretty much gone to a
dedicated PDF viewer on my of my OSes. I don't recall any dialogs
asking me to switch the default app for PDFs. Now, I'll just have to
figure out how to undo it.

"Where Do You Think We're Going Today?"


On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Allen <***@gatwicksoftware.com> wrote:
>> I have an acer laptop and a desktop here that both said no to video drivers.
>> Desktop easy, get a new video card. Not so easy with the laptop. However
>> removing the drivers put the laptop on windows drivers and they updated ok.
>> What will stop you is the processor. It needs to be minimum P4 D (intel
>> wise) and I have a machine with a processor prior to that. I could upgrade
>> the processor but that means motherboard as well. Plus I still dont know if
>> the video card will work. All in all not worth the bother for an old
>> desktop. Plus some things stopped working with 8, like bluesky's html help.
>> Not tried with 10 yet.
>
> Pretty much my situation, too:
>
> Dell Optiplex 745, Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz, 2 Gb RAM, 75 Gb hdd, ATI X1300 Pro card.
>
> I'd pretty much want to drop $80 for 8 Gb RAM, a 1 TB hdd for $50 or
> so, and $35 for a cheap workable XGA card for $165 total.
>
> And then, of course, I'd have to deal with Windows activation, since
> changing that many parts obviously means I'm some sort of criminal
> trying to hack my way to a free Windows license, grrr.
>
> This weekend's NewEgg special was a 3 GHz Dell Optiplex 755, 8 Gb, 1
> Tb hdd, for $129.
>
> Just doesn't make economic sense.
>
> Of course, that's trading an old machine you know works for an old
> machine that might not. Too marginal there, I'd like move up a model
> number or three.
>
>> So don't give up just yet on the PC, it could be as simple as removing the
>> drivers. One note though, the check seems to be a monthly thing. So even
>> changing the drivers or card will not show up. In that case use the media
>> tool. It will download and install windows 10. Don't do ISO, my sister did
>> and it said her windows ID was wrong.
>
> At a minimum, RAM needs to be boosted. 2Gb was fine when I just needed
> to run a thing or two on Win7, but as the project expands, the
> resource demands do, too.
>
> NewEgg sent along a coupon for memory this AM so I may just do that,
> and leave WIndows 10 for the next machine.
>
> I have one Wind-X box for testing and will likely retire this old one
> at Win8.1.
>
> It's likely my next purchase will be a fairly beefy desktop so I can
> run Linux as host and a couple of Win boxes as VMs when needed. A
> couple of quad-cores and 32 Gb of memory ought do to it, don't you
> think?



--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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Alan Bourke
2015-09-14 15:00:03 UTC
Permalink
It sounds like trying to get Excel to let. the hell. GO. of CSV files.
Why would anyone sane edit CSV files in Excel anyway.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Ted Roche
2015-09-14 15:41:46 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> It sounds like trying to get Excel to let. the hell. GO. of CSV files.
> Why would anyone sane edit CSV files in Excel anyway.

What would you have people use? Word?

Excel's pretty smart about parsing CSV or delimited files, it makes
neat columns, it lets people highlight, color or style items they have
questions about, do quick and dirty calculations on the results,...
for most people, in my experience, Excel is the go-to program for
editing tabular data. What would you use? Notepad? Access?

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Peter Cushing
2015-09-14 15:54:21 UTC
Permalink
On 14/09/2015 16:41, Ted Roche wrote:
> What would you have people use? Word?
>
> Excel's pretty smart about parsing CSV or delimited files, it makes
> neat columns, it lets people highlight, color or style items they have
> questions about, do quick and dirty calculations on the results,...
> for most people, in my experience, Excel is the go-to program for
> editing tabular data. What would you use? Notepad? Access?
>
Just had a recent "experience" with excel editing CSV files with German
addresses in. German postcodes are all 5 digits so excel updates the
column to numeric but some valid postcodes start with 0, which it then
ignores. These entries then failed the upload to the courier website.
For editing CSV it is notepad for me all the way. No fancy formatting,
just text editing.

Peter





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Dave Crozier
2015-09-14 15:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Take a look at CSVED I use it all the time and it is free... and portable if you want that version.

http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1101

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Peter Cushing
Sent: 14 September 2015 16:54
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..


On 14/09/2015 16:41, Ted Roche wrote:
> What would you have people use? Word?
>
> Excel's pretty smart about parsing CSV or delimited files, it makes
> neat columns, it lets people highlight, color or style items they have
> questions about, do quick and dirty calculations on the results,...
> for most people, in my experience, Excel is the go-to program for
> editing tabular data. What would you use? Notepad? Access?
>
Just had a recent "experience" with excel editing CSV files with German addresses in. German postcodes are all 5 digits so excel updates the column to numeric but some valid postcodes start with 0, which it then ignores. These entries then failed the upload to the courier website.
For editing CSV it is notepad for me all the way. No fancy formatting, just text editing.

Peter





This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email.

www.whisperingsmith.com

Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR.
Tel:0161 831 3700
Fax:0161 831 3715

London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Peter Cushing
2015-09-14 16:54:18 UTC
Permalink
On 14/09/2015 16:57, Dave Crozier wrote:
> Take a look at CSVED I use it all the time and it is free... and portable if you want that version.
>
> http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1101
>
>
Just having a play with it now. Looks very interesting.

Cheers Dave.

Peter





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Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR.
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London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960


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Dan Covill
2015-09-14 17:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Me too.

Once I learn to use it (!) it should be great for making sense out of those damned contact
export files the email outfits generate, with 150 columns in random orders!

Take a look at the screen shot on the developer’s own site - helps a lot.
http://csved.sjfrancke.nl/

Dan

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Peter Cushing <***@whisperingsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 14/09/2015 16:57, Dave Crozier wrote:
>> Take a look at CSVED I use it all the time and it is free... and portable if you want that version.
>>
>> http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1101
>>
>>
> Just having a play with it now. Looks very interesting.
>
> Cheers Dave.
>
> Peter
>


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Stephen Russell
2015-09-14 17:43:48 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Dan Covill <***@outlook.com> wrote:

> Me too.
>
> Once I learn to use it (!) it should be great for making sense out of
> those damned contact
> export files the email outfits generate, with 150 columns in random orders!
>
> Take a look at the screen shot on the developer’s own site - helps a lot.
> http://csved.sjfrancke.nl/
> -----------


NotePad ++ is the proper cost and pretty good as well.


--
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


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Dan Covill
2015-09-14 19:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Looks pretty professional. Does it have any special provisions for CSV files?

I’ve used EditPad Pro for many years now, and have been very satisfied. I just wish they
had one that would run on Mac - haven’t found a good general purpose text editor on Mac
yet.

Dan

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Stephen Russell <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> NotePad ++ is the proper cost and pretty good as well.
>
>
> --
> Stephen Russell
> Sr. Analyst
> Ring Container Technology
> Oakland TN
>
> 901.246-0159 cell
>
>


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Ted Roche
2015-09-14 19:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Notepad ++ is the Windows version of SciTE, the Scintilla Text Editor.
Scintilla was intended to be a cross-platform GUI library like GTK or
WXWidgets, but I don't think it has a big following. SciTE is
available for OS X as well:

http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Dan Covill <***@outlook.com> wrote:
> Looks pretty professional. Does it have any special provisions for CSV files?
>
> I’ve used EditPad Pro for many years now, and have been very satisfied. I just wish they
> had one that would run on Mac - haven’t found a good general purpose text editor on Mac
> yet.
>
> Dan
>
>> On Sep 14, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Stephen Russell <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> NotePad ++ is the proper cost and pretty good as well.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Russell
>> Sr. Analyst
>> Ring Container Technology
>> Oakland TN
>>
>> 901.246-0159 cell
>>
>>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Dan Covill
2015-09-14 20:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the info, Ted

I get the impression it started in the Linux world, and has more
recently been ported to Windows.

Thinking about trying it, but it's only on the Apple Store which has
no trial period, and $41.99 is a bit much to see if you can use it.

I do WAY more creating .txt note files than I do programming in my text
editor, although I do maintain an HTML website. So my use would depend
on setting it up as a fixed-font text editor.

Will think about and maybe try it later this week.
Thanks again for the info.

Dan

> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:41:02 -0400
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
> From: ***@gmail.com
> To: ***@leafe.com
>
> Notepad ++ is the Windows version of SciTE, the Scintilla Text Editor.
> Scintilla was intended to be a cross-platform GUI library like GTK or
> WXWidgets, but I don't think it has a big following. SciTE is
> available for OS X as well:
>
> http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Dan Covill <***@outlook.com> wrote:
> > Looks pretty professional. Does it have any special provisions for CSV files?
> >
> > I’ve used EditPad Pro for many years now, and have been very satisfied. I just wish they
> > had one that would run on Mac - haven’t found a good general purpose text editor on Mac
> > yet.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >> On Sep 14, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Stephen Russell <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> NotePad ++ is the proper cost and pretty good as well.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Stephen Russell
> >> Sr. Analyst
> >> Ring Container Technology
> >> Oakland TN
> >>
> >> 901.246-0159 cell
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-09-14 20:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Yikes! I didn't know you'd have to _PAY_ for it.

Most of the Rubyists I know run OS X, and Sublime Text (also $70,
http://www.sublimetext.com/) was all the rage a few years ago, but I
think a new version jumped the shark...

The Rubyists use a packaging system, I can't remember if it's
"homebrew" "ports" or "fink" or something new, to install and manage
the full *nix tool chains and utilities on OS X.

I'm a big fan of Vim, which has a graphical version, gViM, but that's
more of a religion than a text editor. It has every feature known to
man (or almost in emacs!) but a bit of a learning curve. Once you get
it, you'll find there's really powerful stuff you can do, but that can
take a while. There are library of add-ons, too: color-coding, file
management, global searching, etc. but everything is controlled
through pretty obscure key combinations. Tune it up with a nice font
(Adobe Source Code Pro for me) and a good colorscheme (Solarized Dark
ftw!) and you're off to the races!

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Dan Covill <***@outlook.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the info, Ted
>
> I get the impression it started in the Linux world, and has more
> recently been ported to Windows.
>
> Thinking about trying it, but it's only on the Apple Store which has
> no trial period, and $41.99 is a bit much to see if you can use it.
>
> I do WAY more creating .txt note files than I do programming in my text
> editor, although I do maintain an HTML website. So my use would depend
> on setting it up as a fixed-font text editor.
>
> Will think about and maybe try it later this week.
> Thanks again for the info.
>
> Dan
>
>> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:41:02 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>> From: ***@gmail.com
>> To: ***@leafe.com
>>
>> Notepad ++ is the Windows version of SciTE, the Scintilla Text Editor.
>> Scintilla was intended to be a cross-platform GUI library like GTK or
>> WXWidgets, but I don't think it has a big following. SciTE is
>> available for OS X as well:
>>
>> http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Dan Covill <***@outlook.com> wrote:
>> > Looks pretty professional. Does it have any special provisions for CSV files?
>> >
>> > I’ve used EditPad Pro for many years now, and have been very satisfied. I just wish they
>> > had one that would run on Mac - haven’t found a good general purpose text editor on Mac
>> > yet.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> >> On Sep 14, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Stephen Russell <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> NotePad ++ is the proper cost and pretty good as well.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Stephen Russell
>> >> Sr. Analyst
>> >> Ring Container Technology
>> >> Oakland TN
>> >>
>> >> 901.246-0159 cell
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Stephen Russell
2015-09-14 20:32:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Dan Covill <***@outlook.com> wrote:

> Looks pretty professional. Does it have any special provisions for CSV
> files?
>
> I’ve used EditPad Pro for many years now, and have been very satisfied. I
> just wish they
> had one that would run on Mac - haven’t found a good general purpose text
> editor on Mac
> yet.
>
> --------------------

youTube has a few videos on how to shine with that editor. CSV work.





> Dan
>
> > On Sep 14, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Stephen Russell <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > NotePad ++ is the proper cost and pretty good as well.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stephen Russell
> > Sr. Analyst
> > Ring Container Technology
> > Oakland TN
> >
> > 901.246-0159 cell
> >
> >
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Dave Crozier
2015-09-15 07:08:50 UTC
Permalink
Dan,
I gave a few bugs to the developer about 3 years ago that I discovered and he turned them around in 24 hours so the guy is certainly on the ball when it comes to responding. I love the product as it is just so easy to manipulate the data when you have to do things like insert a new column of data into the whole of a CSV file. Try doeing that in notepad!!!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Dan Covill
Sent: 14 September 2015 18:41
To: ProFox <***@leafe.com>
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Me too.

Once I learn to use it (!) it should be great for making sense out of those damned contact export files the email outfits generate, with 150 columns in random orders!

Take a look at the screen shot on the developer’s own site - helps a lot.
http://csved.sjfrancke.nl/

Dan

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Peter Cushing <***@whisperingsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 14/09/2015 16:57, Dave Crozier wrote:
>> Take a look at CSVED I use it all the time and it is free... and portable if you want that version.
>>
>> http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1101
>>
>>
> Just having a play with it now. Looks very interesting.
>
> Cheers Dave.
>
> Peter
>


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Ted Roche
2015-09-15 13:26:31 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Dave Crozier <***@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:

> I love the product as it is just so easy to manipulate the data when you have to do things like insert a new column of data into the whole of a CSV file. Try doeing that in notepad!!!

I'd be inclined to use a desktop database management system, like,
well, you know, FoxPro.

:)

Of course, if the file's too big for VFP ( >2Gb), you could always use
a SQLite database for that. I read a book about that, about a
half-dozen times (I was the editor):

http://hentzenwerke.com/catalog/sqlite2gb.htm

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Ted Roche
2015-09-21 17:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Speaking of "Why Windows 10 Sucks," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols takes to
ComputerWorld to voice his opinion on "Windows 10, the stealth OS"

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows-10-the-stealth-os.html

It is an interesting new maneuver by MS to actually download the new
OS as if it were just another patch update. I was astounded at the
size, too.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Dave Crozier <***@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I love the product as it is just so easy to manipulate the data when you have to do things like insert a new column of data into the whole of a CSV file. Try doeing that in notepad!!!
>
> I'd be inclined to use a desktop database management system, like,
> well, you know, FoxPro.
>
> :)
>
> Of course, if the file's too big for VFP ( >2Gb), you could always use
> a SQLite database for that. I read a book about that, about a
> half-dozen times (I was the editor):
>
> http://hentzenwerke.com/catalog/sqlite2gb.htm



--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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Kurt Wendt
2015-09-21 17:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Holy Crap - yeah, I'd say 6GB is a pretty HEFTY Stealth download!

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 1:09 PM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Speaking of "Why Windows 10 Sucks," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols takes to ComputerWorld to voice his opinion on "Windows 10, the stealth OS"

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows-10-the-stealth-os.html

It is an interesting new maneuver by MS to actually download the new OS as if it were just another patch update. I was astounded at the size, too.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Dave Crozier <***@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I love the product as it is just so easy to manipulate the data when you have to do things like insert a new column of data into the whole of a CSV file. Try doeing that in notepad!!!
>
> I'd be inclined to use a desktop database management system, like,
> well, you know, FoxPro.
>
> :)
>
> Of course, if the file's too big for VFP ( >2Gb), you could always use
> a SQLite database for that. I read a book about that, about a
> half-dozen times (I was the editor):
>
> http://hentzenwerke.com/catalog/sqlite2gb.htm



--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ken Dibble
2015-09-21 17:32:24 UTC
Permalink
>Speaking of "Why Windows 10 Sucks," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols takes to
>ComputerWorld to voice his opinion on "Windows 10, the stealth OS"
>
>http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows-10-the-stealth-os.html
>
>It is an interesting new maneuver by MS to actually download the new
>OS as if it were just another patch update. I was astounded at the
>size, too.

Yet another reason to disable automatic updates.

Windows Automatic Updates: Just Say No.

Ken Dibble
www.stic-cil.org


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AndyHC
2015-09-21 21:20:51 UTC
Permalink
On 21/09/2015 18:09, Ted Roche wrote:
> Speaking of "Why Windows 10 Sucks," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols takes to
> ComputerWorld to voice his opinion on "Windows 10, the stealth OS"
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows-10-the-stealth-os.html
>
> It is an interesting new maneuver by MS to actually download the new
> OS as if it were just another patch update. I was astounded at the
> size, too.
>
>
... SWindows.~BT 5.44Gb 16,838 Files, 3,585 Folders

sheesh - I thought my laptop was running like a dog last week!
# I REALLY can't believe they've done this! #



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Dave Crozier
2015-09-22 07:25:59 UTC
Permalink
What about the poor folks who have an ISP cap or even worse pay for their data.. Out of order mr M$

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of AndyHC
Sent: 21 September 2015 22:21
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

On 21/09/2015 18:09, Ted Roche wrote:
> Speaking of "Why Windows 10 Sucks," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols takes to
> ComputerWorld to voice his opinion on "Windows 10, the stealth OS"
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows
> -10-the-stealth-os.html
>
> It is an interesting new maneuver by MS to actually download the new
> OS as if it were just another patch update. I was astounded at the
> size, too.
>
>
... SWindows.~BT 5.44Gb 16,838 Files, 3,585 Folders

sheesh - I thought my laptop was running like a dog last week!
# I REALLY can't believe they've done this! #



[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Thierry Nivelet
2015-09-22 08:04:50 UTC
Permalink
maybe time for a new thread? (we're 30 levels deep!)

Thierry Nivelet
FoxInCloud
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
http://foxincloud.com/

Le 21/09/2015 23:20, AndyHC a écrit :
> On 21/09/2015 18:09, Ted Roche wrote:
>> Speaking of "Why Windows 10 Sucks," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols takes to
>> ComputerWorld to voice his opinion on "Windows 10, the stealth OS"
>>
>> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows-10-the-stealth-os.html
>>
>>
>> It is an interesting new maneuver by MS to actually download the new
>> OS as if it were just another patch update. I was astounded at the
>> size, too.
>>
>>
> ... SWindows.~BT 5.44Gb 16,838 Files, 3,585 Folders
>
> sheesh - I thought my laptop was running like a dog last week!
> # I REALLY can't believe they've done this! #
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-09-14 17:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Well, sure there are lots of tools for us power users. I was talking
about muggles; corporate drones who can't install software on their
machines, or folks rightfully intimidated by all the tales of malware
out there who avoid installing stuff in general. Why isn't excel an
adequate CSV editor, other than the stupid parsing, as Peter points
out? Alan said, "Why would anyone sane edit CSV files in Excel anyway"
and well, CSVs are like nails, and Excel like a hammer.

Although, of course, I'd use LibreOffice Calc :)

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Dave Crozier <***@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:
> Take a look at CSVED I use it all the time and it is free... and portable if you want that version.
>
> http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1101
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ProFox [mailto:profox-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Peter Cushing
> Sent: 14 September 2015 16:54
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>
>
> On 14/09/2015 16:41, Ted Roche wrote:
>> What would you have people use? Word?
>>
>> Excel's pretty smart about parsing CSV or delimited files, it makes
>> neat columns, it lets people highlight, color or style items they have
>> questions about, do quick and dirty calculations on the results,...
>> for most people, in my experience, Excel is the go-to program for
>> editing tabular data. What would you use? Notepad? Access?
>>
> Just had a recent "experience" with excel editing CSV files with German addresses in. German postcodes are all 5 digits so excel updates the column to numeric but some valid postcodes start with 0, which it then ignores. These entries then failed the upload to the courier website.
> For editing CSV it is notepad for me all the way. No fancy formatting, just text editing.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email.
>
> www.whisperingsmith.com
>
> Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR.
> Tel:0161 831 3700
> Fax:0161 831 3715
>
> London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:0207 299 7960
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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John Weller
2015-09-14 17:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Horses for courses :-)

John Weller
01380 723235
079763 93631
Sent from my iPad

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 19:06, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, sure there are lots of tools for us power users. I was talking
> about muggles; corporate drones who can't install software on their
> machines, or folks rightfully intimidated by all the tales of malware
> out there who avoid installing stuff in general. Why isn't excel an
> adequate CSV editor, other than the stupid parsing, as Peter points
> out? Alan said, "Why would anyone sane edit CSV files in Excel anyway"
> and well, CSVs are like nails, and Excel like a hammer.
>
> Although, of course, I'd use LibreOffice Calc :)

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Stephen Russell
2015-09-14 15:58:01 UTC
Permalink
A good text editor is the best way for CSV files.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Peter Cushing <
***@whisperingsmith.com> wrote:

>
> On 14/09/2015 16:41, Ted Roche wrote:
>
>> What would you have people use? Word?
>>
>> Excel's pretty smart about parsing CSV or delimited files, it makes
>> neat columns, it lets people highlight, color or style items they have
>> questions about, do quick and dirty calculations on the results,...
>> for most people, in my experience, Excel is the go-to program for
>> editing tabular data. What would you use? Notepad? Access?
>>
>> Just had a recent "experience" with excel editing CSV files with German
> addresses in. German postcodes are all 5 digits so excel updates the
> column to numeric but some valid postcodes start with 0, which it then
> ignores. These entries then failed the upload to the courier website. For
> editing CSV it is notepad for me all the way. No fancy formatting, just
> text editing.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
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John Weller
2015-09-14 17:38:23 UTC
Permalink
I like Notepad++

John Weller
01380 723235
079763 93631
Sent from my iPad

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Alan Bourke
2015-09-14 20:58:33 UTC
Permalink
To echo earlier comments I either use CSVEdit, or Notepad++, and its
handy column selection ability.


--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


On Mon, 14 Sep 2015, at 04:41 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> > It sounds like trying to get Excel to let. the hell. GO. of CSV files.
> > Why would anyone sane edit CSV files in Excel anyway.
>
> What would you have people use? Word?
>
> Excel's pretty smart about parsing CSV or delimited files, it makes
> neat columns, it lets people highlight, color or style items they have
> questions about, do quick and dirty calculations on the results,...
> for most people, in my experience, Excel is the go-to program for
> editing tabular data. What would you use? Notepad? Access?
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Dan Covill
2015-09-14 16:27:59 UTC
Permalink
I’ve used Foxit Reader for several years now. Way simpler and faster than Adobe.

Dan

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "How to Uninstall 23 Apps You Didn't Know You Had" sure sounds like
> clickbait to me, but the article is interesting:
>
> http://www.itworld.com/article/2983665/windows-apps/how-to-uninstall-default-windows-10-apps-you-never-knew-you-had.html
>
> My Win10 beef of the week (bearing in mind it's only Monday ;) Over
> the weekend, IE decided it was the default PDF viewer, and not the
> Adobe app I had been using for some time. I had a LOT of problems with
> the PDF.js viewer in FireFox, and the PDF viewer in Chrome just can't
> reliably nor consistently print PDFs, so I've pretty much gone to a
> dedicated PDF viewer on my of my OSes. I don't recall any dialogs
> asking me to switch the default app for PDFs. Now, I'll just have to
> figure out how to undo it.
>
> "Where Do You Think We're Going Today?"


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Alan Bourke
2015-08-18 15:56:01 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, at 02:50 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:


> This leads me to
> believe that maybe I should just Stick w/Win7 and I will be fine.

Unless you have a compelling reason to upgrade or curiosity about
Windows 10 I would stay on Windows 7, at least until just before the
'get it for free' period runs out.

> One comment the author made, really makes me wary about Win10: " As if it
> wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run
> Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people
> absolutely do not need."

I assume he means the install image gets downloaded if you have said
'yeah, sure' in the little 'Get Windows 10' notification area icon. Even
if that happens, no it does not upgrade without you expressly telling it
to.



--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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Kurt @ VR-FX
2015-08-18 22:08:30 UTC
Permalink
U know when free period runs out???


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, at 02:50 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:
>
>
>> This leads me to
>> believe that maybe I should just Stick w/Win7 and I will be fine.
>
> Unless you have a compelling reason to upgrade or curiosity about
> Windows 10 I would stay on Windows 7, at least until just before the
> 'get it for free' period runs out.
>
>> One comment the author made, really makes me wary about Win10: " As if it
>> wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run
>> Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people
>> absolutely do not need."
>
> I assume he means the install image gets downloaded if you have said
> 'yeah, sure' in the little 'Get Windows 10' notification area icon. Even
> if that happens, no it does not upgrade without you expressly telling it
> to.
>
>
>
> --
> Alan Bourke
> alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-18 22:14:36 UTC
Permalink
In just under a year
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, at 11:08 PM, Kurt @ VR-FX wrote:
> U know when free period runs out???
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Aug 2015, at 02:50 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This leads me to
> >> believe that maybe I should just Stick w/Win7 and I will be fine.
> >
> > Unless you have a compelling reason to upgrade or curiosity about
> > Windows 10 I would stay on Windows 7, at least until just before the
> > 'get it for free' period runs out.
> >
> >> One comment the author made, really makes me wary about Win10: " As if it
> >> wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run
> >> Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people
> >> absolutely do not need."
> >
> > I assume he means the install image gets downloaded if you have said
> > 'yeah, sure' in the little 'Get Windows 10' notification area icon. Even
> > if that happens, no it does not upgrade without you expressly telling it
> > to.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alan Bourke
> > alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
> >
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Mike Copeland
2015-08-18 22:24:15 UTC
Permalink
7/29/16

Mike Copeland

Alan Bourke wrote:
> In just under a year
> -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm On Tue, 18 Aug 2015,
> at 11:08 PM, Kurt @ VR-FX wrote:
>> >U know when free period runs out???
>> >


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m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
2015-08-18 21:14:44 UTC
Permalink
On 2015-08-17 14:23, Ted Roche wrote:
> This sounds like it should automatically disqualify Windows for any
> confidential work: HIPAA, stock trading, banking, government work,
> etc.



Agreed! Sounds like a nightmare scenario for privacy leaks.

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Ken Dibble
2015-08-14 17:30:16 UTC
Permalink
My reading suggests that it might be possible to disable all updates
by turning off the update service the way you can turn off and
disable any service in Windows. However, I have also read that some
kind of trolling "error detection" feature will eventually find this
and turn the service back on, though it might be possible to deal
with this by following an appropriate maintenance schedule.

I will want to go with the Enterprise version to gain maximum control
over this issue, but I'm not sure how this will be handled since it's
only available for bulk licenses, and I don't always need to buy more
than one machine at a time.

The level of complaints about forced updates has been so high that I
bet this is one of those things that MS will quietly "disappear" via
a registry setting or something pretty soon.

Beyond the fact that MS has a fairly poor track record of releasing
system-mangling updates that have to be rolled back, I am very
concerned that, because Windows 10 is the "last" operating system (I
know this is a marketing thing and not a real thing), forced updates
will allow them to "update" the OS out from under my applications and
force me to buy new things on their schedule instead of mine. Very,
very, very bad.

However, we just bought a bunch of Win 7 machines to keep as spares
to give us time for MS to respond to the deluge of complaints before
we have to buy any Win 10 machines for production. (I, of course,
will buy one this fall so I can start tinkering with it.)

Ken Dibble
www.stic-cil.org


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Jerry Wolper
2015-08-24 05:40:53 UTC
Permalink
> Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
> "false positives" where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
> pirated and disable it.

Call me a hopeless romantic, but I prefer my operating system to, you know,
operate the system, not to worry about what software or data I might have
on the machine. I'd also strongly prefer that it not report back on me to
anybody.

-Jerry


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-24 23:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Your OS should be like your wife, it shouldn't be allowed to testify
against you :P

On 24/08/15 02:40, Jerry Wolper wrote:
>> Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
>> "false positives" where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
>> pirated and disable it.
> Call me a hopeless romantic, but I prefer my operating system to, you know,
> operate the system, not to worry about what software or data I might have
> on the machine. I'd also strongly prefer that it not report back on me to
> anybody.
>
> -Jerry
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Kurt Wendt
2015-08-25 13:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Nice one Ricardo - Very funny!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Araoz
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 7:49 PM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Your OS should be like your wife, it shouldn't be allowed to testify against you :P

On 24/08/15 02:40, Jerry Wolper wrote:
>> Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
>> "false positives" where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
>> pirated and disable it.
> Call me a hopeless romantic, but I prefer my operating system to, you
> know, operate the system, not to worry about what software or data I
> might have on the machine. I'd also strongly prefer that it not report
> back on me to anybody.
>
> -Jerry
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Gene Wirchenko
2015-08-26 17:41:07 UTC
Permalink
At 16:48 2015-08-24, Ricardo Araoz <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>Your OS should be like your wife, it shouldn't be allowed to testify
>against you :P

If you really loved me, you would not be "upgrading" to that
Other OS. You think that "10" can talk? Wait till you see what I've
got on you! See you in court!

[snipped previous]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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Ted Roche
2015-08-26 18:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Oh, I absolutely agree! My primary OS is Linux so I can have a lot
more control of my choices.

However, I have to support clients on OS X and Windows, so I need to
know how those platforms work and how I might run them safely within
my office network. My clients will have issues running standard HTML5,
CSS3 and Javascript if they use an off-brand browser like Safari or
Edge, so I have to reproduce their environments.

MS and Apple (and Google, and Facebook and Twitter and...) collect far
more information about what I type, what I view, what I search and the
contents of my documents than I am comfortable with. Their excuse of
Big Data for better ads and "no personally identifiable information"
has been proven false more than once.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jerry Wolper <***@swanzoco.com> wrote:
>> Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
>> "false positives" where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
>> pirated and disable it.
>
> Call me a hopeless romantic, but I prefer my operating system to, you know,
> operate the system, not to worry about what software or data I might have
> on the machine. I'd also strongly prefer that it not report back on me to
> anybody.
>
> -Jerry
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-26 19:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Ubuntu does too, although I'm guessing you use a different distro.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, at 07:04 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> Oh, I absolutely agree! My primary OS is Linux so I can have a lot
> more control of my choices.
>
> However, I have to support clients on OS X and Windows, so I need to
> know how those platforms work and how I might run them safely within
> my office network. My clients will have issues running standard HTML5,
> CSS3 and Javascript if they use an off-brand browser like Safari or
> Edge, so I have to reproduce their environments.
>
> MS and Apple (and Google, and Facebook and Twitter and...) collect far
> more information about what I type, what I view, what I search and the
> contents of my documents than I am comfortable with. Their excuse of
> Big Data for better ads and "no personally identifiable information"
> has been proven false more than once.
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jerry Wolper <***@swanzoco.com>
> wrote:
> >> Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
> >> "false positives" where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
> >> pirated and disable it.
> >
> > Call me a hopeless romantic, but I prefer my operating system to, you know,
> > operate the system, not to worry about what software or data I might have
> > on the machine. I'd also strongly prefer that it not report back on me to
> > anybody.
> >
> > -Jerry
> >
> >
> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> > multipart/alternative
> > text/plain (text body -- kept)
> > text/html
> > ---
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-26 19:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Only in the last couple of versions and it can be disabled, which is not
the case with other "products".


On 26/08/15 16:18, Alan Bourke wrote:
> Ubuntu does too, although I'm guessing you use a different distro.


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Ted Roche
2015-08-26 21:43:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Ubuntu does too, although I'm guessing you use a different distro.

Ubuntu does too, what?

Not an Ubu user, what are they up to?

Mostly I'm a Fedora, RedHat and CentOS user.

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-26 22:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon
search results will be displayed on your machine when you search for
anything within Unity.
Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle to
disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though with
what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other gvt
agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).



On 26/08/15 18:43, Ted Roche wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu does too, although I'm guessing you use a different distro.
> Ubuntu does too, what?
>
> Not an Ubu user, what are they up to?
>
> Mostly I'm a Fedora, RedHat and CentOS user.
>
> --
> Ted Roche
> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
> http://www.tedroche.com
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Mike Copeland
2015-08-26 22:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know') has
ever denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows for
governmental use?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in
his computer.

Mike

Ricardo Araoz wrote:
> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches
> to Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon
> search results will be displayed on your machine when you search for
> anything within Unity.
> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle
> to disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though
> with what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other gvt
> agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).


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Ted Roche
2015-08-26 23:12:48 UTC
Permalink
IF $MESSAGE$"NSA" OR $MESSAGE$"government"
SET $SUBJECT TO "[OT] " + $SUBJECT
ENDIF


On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
> Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know') has ever
> denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows for governmental
> use?
>
> "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in his
> computer.
>
> Mike
>
> Ricardo Araoz wrote:
>>
>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
>> Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon search
>> results will be displayed on your machine when you search for anything
>> within Unity.
>> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle to
>> disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though with what
>> MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other gvt agencies (you
>> have no toggle there to disable it).
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-27 00:51:47 UTC
Permalink
Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws
encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be
returned as object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts
of the OS followed said path then there's nothing you can do about it.

On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:
> IF $MESSAGE$"NSA" OR $MESSAGE$"government"
> SET $SUBJECT TO "[OT] " + $SUBJECT
> ENDIF
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
>> Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know') has ever
>> denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows for governmental
>> use?
>>
>> "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in his
>> computer.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Ricardo Araoz wrote:
>>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
>>> Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon search
>>> results will be displayed on your machine when you search for anything
>>> within Unity.
>>> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle to
>>> disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though with what
>>> MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other gvt agencies (you
>>> have no toggle there to disable it).
>>
>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Kurt Wendt
2015-08-27 13:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Actually - Ricardo - I think Ted meant that in a humorous way - although somewhat serious - that if we start talking NSA or Gov't in this message thread - that we are seriously moving into the realm of [OT] Territory. And, thus - he's suggesting that maybe those folks wanting to add to this thread in regards to NSA or Gov't should change the message subject to add [OT]. I could be wrong - but, me thinks not...

Right Ted??

:-)
-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Araoz
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 8:52 PM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be returned as object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts of the OS followed said path then there's nothing you can do about it.

On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:
> IF $MESSAGE$"NSA" OR $MESSAGE$"government"
> SET $SUBJECT TO "[OT] " + $SUBJECT
> ENDIF
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
>> Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know')
>> has ever denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows
>> for governmental use?
>>
>> "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in
>> his computer.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Ricardo Araoz wrote:
>>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches
>>> to Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online
>>> Amazon search results will be displayed on your machine when you
>>> search for anything within Unity.
>>> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle
>>> to disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though
>>> with what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other
>>> gvt agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).
>>
>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-08-27 14:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Sharp as a tack, Kurt. Exactly right.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Kurt Wendt <***@globetax.com> wrote:
> Actually - Ricardo - I think Ted meant that in a humorous way - although somewhat serious - that if we start talking NSA or Gov't in this message thread - that we are seriously moving into the realm of [OT] Territory. And, thus - he's suggesting that maybe those folks wanting to add to this thread in regards to NSA or Gov't should change the message subject to add [OT]. I could be wrong - but, me thinks not...
>
> Right Ted??
>
> :-)
> -K-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Araoz
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 8:52 PM
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>
> Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be returned as object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts of the OS followed said path then there's nothing you can do about it.
>
> On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:
>> IF $MESSAGE$"NSA" OR $MESSAGE$"government"
>> SET $SUBJECT TO "[OT] " + $SUBJECT
>> ENDIF
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
>>> Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know')
>>> has ever denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows
>>> for governmental use?
>>>
>>> "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in
>>> his computer.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Ricardo Araoz wrote:
>>>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches
>>>> to Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online
>>>> Amazon search results will be displayed on your machine when you
>>>> search for anything within Unity.
>>>> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle
>>>> to disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though
>>>> with what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other
>>>> gvt agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).
>>>
>>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Kurt Wendt
2015-08-27 14:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Ha HA Ted - Ur a Rip!

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 10:00 AM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Sharp as a tack, Kurt. Exactly right.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Kurt Wendt <***@globetax.com> wrote:
> Actually - Ricardo - I think Ted meant that in a humorous way - although somewhat serious - that if we start talking NSA or Gov't in this message thread - that we are seriously moving into the realm of [OT] Territory. And, thus - he's suggesting that maybe those folks wanting to add to this thread in regards to NSA or Gov't should change the message subject to add [OT]. I could be wrong - but, me thinks not...
>
> Right Ted??
>
> :-)
> -K-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
> Ricardo Araoz
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 8:52 PM
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>
> Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be returned as object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts of the OS followed said path then there's nothing you can do about it.
>
> On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:
>> IF $MESSAGE$"NSA" OR $MESSAGE$"government"
>> SET $SUBJECT TO "[OT] " + $SUBJECT ENDIF
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
>>> Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know')
>>> has ever denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows
>>> for governmental use?
>>>
>>> "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in
>>> his computer.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Ricardo Araoz wrote:
>>>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches
>>>> to Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online
>>>> Amazon search results will be displayed on your machine when you
>>>> search for anything within Unity.
>>>> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle
>>>> to disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though
>>>> with what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other
>>>> gvt agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).
>>>
>>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-27 14:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Doh!
Didn't even look at the code.

On 27/08/15 11:00, Ted Roche wrote:
> Sharp as a tack, Kurt. Exactly right.
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Kurt Wendt <***@globetax.com> wrote:
>> Actually - Ricardo - I think Ted meant that in a humorous way - although somewhat serious - that if we start talking NSA or Gov't in this message thread - that we are seriously moving into the realm of [OT] Territory. And, thus - he's suggesting that maybe those folks wanting to add to this thread in regards to NSA or Gov't should change the message subject to add [OT]. I could be wrong - but, me thinks not...
>>
>> Right Ted??
>>
>> :-)
>> -K-
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Araoz
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 8:52 PM
>> To: ***@leafe.com
>> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>>
>> Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be returned as object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts of the OS followed said path then there's nothing you can do about it.
>>
>> On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:
>>> IF $MESSAGE$"NSA" OR $MESSAGE$"government"
>>> SET $SUBJECT TO "[OT] " + $SUBJECT
>>> ENDIF
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland <***@ggisoft.com> wrote:
>>>> Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know')
>>>> has ever denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows
>>>> for governmental use?
>>>>
>>>> "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" he said to the people in
>>>> his computer.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Ricardo Araoz wrote:
>>>>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches
>>>>> to Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online
>>>>> Amazon search results will be displayed on your machine when you
>>>>> search for anything within Unity.
>>>>> Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle
>>>>> to disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though
>>>>> with what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other
>>>>> gvt agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).
>>>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Paul Hill
2015-08-27 10:19:58 UTC
Permalink
On 26 August 2015 at 23:18, Ricardo Araoz <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
> Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon search
> results will be displayed on your machine when you search for anything
> within Unity.

Install Debian instead. Don't support such blatent commercialisation
of a free OS.
Ubuntu is 90% Debian anyway.

--
Paul

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-27 10:27:19 UTC
Permalink
> Don't support such blatent commercialisation
> of a free OS.

Unfortunately it never will be the year of Linux on the desktop without
things like Ubuntu. Mint seems to be overtaking it a bit now though.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Ted Roche
2015-08-27 10:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Luckily, Linux's plan for world domination doesn't require desktops :)

Everyone else is abandoning the desktops for tablets, phones and mobile anyway.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:27 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> Don't support such blatent commercialisation
>> of a free OS.
>
> Unfortunately it never will be the year of Linux on the desktop without
> things like Ubuntu. Mint seems to be overtaking it a bit now though.
>
> --
> Alan Bourke
> alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-08-27 14:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, developers are a tiny percentage of the zillions of users of
computers. Scientists need huge displays for data visualization,
financial traders for complex displays, etc. Many other folks are
running their business just fine on tiny screens for email, texts,
hard as it is to believe, Word docs and spreadsheets. Mobile is all
the rage. While I see some utility in it, for a lot of folks it's just
playing Angry Birds in meetings and tweeting on company time, imo. And
get off my lawn!

When I was repairing a couple of my machines, I was doing dev on the
ASUS Transformer. Teeny 10" screen, but 1366x768 was actually better
resolution than the old XGA we thought of as the cat's pajamas lo
those many years ago, and a keyboard that made me scrunch my fingers
together. I would prefer a pair of 24" 1920x1080 screens, though.


On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Allen <***@gatwicksoftware.com> wrote:
> I dont think I will be developing on a tablet for a while. Unless they get
> larger screens
> Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Luckily, Linux's plan for world domination doesn't require desktops :)
>
> Everyone else is abandoning the desktops for tablets, phones and mobile
> anyway.
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Kurt Wendt
2015-08-27 14:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Honestly - I think there is VAST Potential for Developers to create specialized Apps for Tablets.

For example - 2 instances I have come across in the past # of years.

Doctors. Instead of tons of notes & paperwork on a patient - data on the tablet & recording the current issues of the patient visit - seems to be a prime example of a good use for Tablets. Some years ago when I was with my son at the Pediatrician - the Dr. had a mobile device - although at the time - I think it was a device closer to size of a PDA or a Smart phone. With that device the Dr. could send a prescription request to a Pharmacy immediately.

Second - Sales. More specifically. When I was last working for a SW co. in the Fashion Industry - located in the Fashion District of NYC - I was working on a Desktop App for processing of Orders - as well as doing EDI. But, they had a smaller App that could be used by Sales People to take orders from Customers onsite. Like at Trade Shows or Trunk Sales. Of course, these are potential customers for a Store - and thus like Wholesale type orders. AT the time, we were going to change the App so that you could use a Scanner and scan a Bar Code on a Tag - to help expedite the sales process. So - in this instance - a Tablet is perfect!

Enough said...

-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 10:00 AM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Yeah, developers are a tiny percentage of the zillions of users of computers. Scientists need huge displays for data visualization, financial traders for complex displays, etc. Many other folks are running their business just fine on tiny screens for email, texts, hard as it is to believe, Word docs and spreadsheets. Mobile is all the rage. While I see some utility in it, for a lot of folks it's just playing Angry Birds in meetings and tweeting on company time, imo. And get off my lawn!

When I was repairing a couple of my machines, I was doing dev on the ASUS Transformer. Teeny 10" screen, but 1366x768 was actually better resolution than the old XGA we thought of as the cat's pajamas lo those many years ago, and a keyboard that made me scrunch my fingers together. I would prefer a pair of 24" 1920x1080 screens, though.


On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Allen <***@gatwicksoftware.com> wrote:
> I dont think I will be developing on a tablet for a while. Unless they
> get larger screens Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Luckily, Linux's plan for world domination doesn't require desktops :)
>
> Everyone else is abandoning the desktops for tablets, phones and
> mobile anyway.
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-27 14:31:03 UTC
Permalink
> Honestly - I think there is VAST Potential for Developers to create
> specialized Apps for Tablets.

Yes, there are. Any use case where somebody has to walk around and then
at some point go back to a PC to enter things as a result of walking
around is a prime target for this.

--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Dan Covill
2015-08-27 16:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Another example.  

Went to the Apple store yesterday and bought a MacBook Air.  The demonstrator/salesperson used a smartphone to place the order,
enter the Credit Card, and print the receipt.  No cash register involved.

But back at the office, somebody is running the sales and accounting system.  And they're using a desktop!

Dan

----------------------------------------
> From: ***@globetax.com
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: RE: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:18:47 +0000
>
> Honestly - I think there is VAST Potential for Developers to create specialized Apps for Tablets.
>
> For example - 2 instances I have come across in the past # of years.
>
> Doctors. Instead of tons of notes & paperwork on a patient - data on the tablet & recording the current issues of the patient visit - seems to be a prime example of a good use for Tablets. Some years ago when I was with my son at the Pediatrician - the Dr. had a mobile device - although at the time - I think it was a device closer to size of a PDA or a Smart phone. With that device the Dr. could send a prescription request to a Pharmacy immediately.
>
> Second - Sales. More specifically. When I was last working for a SW co. in the Fashion Industry - located in the Fashion District of NYC - I was working on a Desktop App for processing of Orders - as well as doing EDI. But, they had a smaller App that could be used by Sales People to take orders from Customers onsite. Like at Trade Shows or Trunk Sales. Of course, these are potential customers for a Store - and thus like Wholesale type orders. AT the time, we were going to change the App so that you could use a Scanner and scan a Bar Code on a Tag - to help expedite the sales process. So - in this instance - a Tablet is perfect!
>


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Kurt Wendt
2015-08-27 16:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Oh yes - True - I forgot about that particular example. Somewhat similar to the Sales example I mentioned. But, yes - I have seen a NUMBER of places - where the "Cash register" & Order Entry were actually Tablets. I've seen this a number of times - and usually I query the person about what it is - iPad/Surface/etc. - although, as the worker - they generally don't know the answer. But, yes - that's a really Good example. Especially since with the Order Entry - you can track what people like - and change menus or Store inventory based upon past activity!

-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Dan Covill
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 12:50 PM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: RE: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Another example.  

Went to the Apple store yesterday and bought a MacBook Air.  The demonstrator/salesperson used a smartphone to place the order, enter the Credit Card, and print the receipt.  No cash register involved.

But back at the office, somebody is running the sales and accounting system.  And they're using a desktop!

Dan

----------------------------------------
> From: ***@globetax.com
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: RE: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:18:47 +0000
>
> Honestly - I think there is VAST Potential for Developers to create specialized Apps for Tablets.
>
> For example - 2 instances I have come across in the past # of years.
>
> Doctors. Instead of tons of notes & paperwork on a patient - data on the tablet & recording the current issues of the patient visit - seems to be a prime example of a good use for Tablets. Some years ago when I was with my son at the Pediatrician - the Dr. had a mobile device - although at the time - I think it was a device closer to size of a PDA or a Smart phone. With that device the Dr. could send a prescription request to a Pharmacy immediately.
>
> Second - Sales. More specifically. When I was last working for a SW co. in the Fashion Industry - located in the Fashion District of NYC - I was working on a Desktop App for processing of Orders - as well as doing EDI. But, they had a smaller App that could be used by Sales People to take orders from Customers onsite. Like at Trade Shows or Trunk Sales. Of course, these are potential customers for a Store - and thus like Wholesale type orders. AT the time, we were going to change the App so that you could use a Scanner and scan a Bar Code on a Tag - to help expedite the sales process. So - in this instance - a Tablet is perfect!
>


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ted Roche
2015-08-28 13:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Today's post,

"How to get rid of the 'Your upgrade to Windows 10 is ready' lock"

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2974479/microsoft-windows/how-to-get-rid-of-the-your-upgrade-to-windows-10-is-ready-lock-on-windows-update-in-win7-and-8-1.html

I've mentioned I have one machine, easily 6 or 8 years old, with an
oddball ATI video card it took me forever to find a compatible driver
for in Win 8.1 (I think it was a Vista-era driver, iirc). Win 10
compatibility test says it's a no-go, and I believe it, so I'll try
this to see if I can get rid of the nagware.



On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Kurt Wendt <***@globetax.com> wrote:
> Oh yes - True - I forgot about that particular example. Somewhat similar to the Sales example I mentioned. But, yes - I have seen a NUMBER of places - where the "Cash register" & Order Entry were actually Tablets. I've seen this a number of times - and usually I query the person about what it is - iPad/Surface/etc. - although, as the worker - they generally don't know the answer. But, yes - that's a really Good example. Especially since with the Order Entry - you can track what people like - and change menus or Store inventory based upon past activity!
>
> -K-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Dan Covill
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 12:50 PM
> To: ***@leafe.com
> Subject: RE: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>
> Another example.
>
> Went to the Apple store yesterday and bought a MacBook Air. The demonstrator/salesperson used a smartphone to place the order, enter the Credit Card, and print the receipt. No cash register involved.
>
> But back at the office, somebody is running the sales and accounting system. And they're using a desktop!
>
> Dan
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: ***@globetax.com
>> To: ***@leafe.com
>> Subject: RE: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:18:47 +0000
>>
>> Honestly - I think there is VAST Potential for Developers to create specialized Apps for Tablets.
>>
>> For example - 2 instances I have come across in the past # of years.
>>
>> Doctors. Instead of tons of notes & paperwork on a patient - data on the tablet & recording the current issues of the patient visit - seems to be a prime example of a good use for Tablets. Some years ago when I was with my son at the Pediatrician - the Dr. had a mobile device - although at the time - I think it was a device closer to size of a PDA or a Smart phone. With that device the Dr. could send a prescription request to a Pharmacy immediately.
>>
>> Second - Sales. More specifically. When I was last working for a SW co. in the Fashion Industry - located in the Fashion District of NYC - I was working on a Desktop App for processing of Orders - as well as doing EDI. But, they had a smaller App that could be used by Sales People to take orders from Customers onsite. Like at Trade Shows or Trunk Sales. Of course, these are potential customers for a Store - and thus like Wholesale type orders. AT the time, we were going to change the App so that you could use a Scanner and scan a Bar Code on a Tag - to help expedite the sales process. So - in this instance - a Tablet is perfect!
>>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Ken Dibble
2015-08-28 15:59:05 UTC
Permalink
And on the "controlling updates" tip:

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2976681/microsoft-windows/microsoft-to-deliver-windows-10s-business-update-service-in-stages.html

Looks like even if I get a Win 10 "business" box to tinker with, I
may not be able to keep it from installing FUBARed updates on itself,
so I can tell the difference between what I screwed up and what MS
screwed up, until sometime next year.

The implication, is that MS isn't likely to turn off Win 7
availability any time soon, since no sane corporate IT officer is
going to move to Win 10 until this, among many other things, is sorted out.

So now I don't know if it's even worth it for to start messing with this.

Where do I want to go today? I don't know, but I want it to be today,
not next April.

Ken Dibble
www.stic-cil.org


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Paul Hill
2015-08-28 18:13:49 UTC
Permalink
On 28 August 2015 at 16:59, Ken Dibble <***@stny.rr.com> wrote:
> And on the "controlling updates" tip:
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2976681/microsoft-windows/microsoft-to-deliver-windows-10s-business-update-service-in-stages.html
>
> Looks like even if I get a Win 10 "business" box to tinker with, I may not
> be able to keep it from installing FUBARed updates on itself, so I can tell
> the difference between what I screwed up and what MS screwed up, until
> sometime next year.

Windows Pro allows you to defer updates:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-10/defer-upgrades-in-windows-10

Though:
"Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates"

> The implication, is that MS isn't likely to turn off Win 7 availability any
> time soon, since no sane corporate IT officer is going to move to Win 10
> until this, among many other things, is sorted out.

Corporate IT will have a WSUS server.

Our Win 10 boxes at work are definitely receiving updates from WSUS.
Windows WSUS 2012 displays them as Windows Vista!

I should point out that Windows 10 updates are an option in WSUS 2012.
It's just the display that is getting confused by the version no.

--
Paul

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Man-wai Chang
2015-08-29 13:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Just remove KB3035583 from Installed Updates! :)

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-27 14:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Isn't Mint based on Ubuntu? Did they take away the spyware?

On 27/08/15 07:52, Ted Roche wrote:
> Luckily, Linux's plan for world domination doesn't require desktops :)
>
> Everyone else is abandoning the desktops for tablets, phones and mobile anyway.
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:27 AM, Alan Bourke <***@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> Don't support such blatent commercialisation
>>> of a free OS.
>> Unfortunately it never will be the year of Linux on the desktop without
>> things like Ubuntu. Mint seems to be overtaking it a bit now though.
>>
>> --
>> Alan Bourke
>> alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Alan Bourke
2015-08-27 15:30:25 UTC
Permalink
In true Linux fragmentation style, standard Mint is based on both Debian
and Ubuntu. Linux Mint Debian Edition is just based on Debian. Within
those two, there are multiple choices of user interface (Cinnamon, Mate,
KDE, Xfce) and within that versions that do or do not bundle codecs and
OEM editions.

In other words the polar opposite of the little-changing,
Apple-controlled world of iOS and MacOS.


--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Ricardo Araoz
2015-08-27 14:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Will do next time I change version.

On 27/08/15 07:19, Paul Hill wrote:
> On 26 August 2015 at 23:18, Ricardo Araoz <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
>> Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon search
>> results will be displayed on your machine when you search for anything
>> within Unity.
> Install Debian instead. Don't support such blatent commercialisation
> of a free OS.
> Ubuntu is 90% Debian anyway.
>


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Man-wai Chang
2015-08-27 09:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Anyone wanna talk about the privacy issue in Win 10 free upgrade, about
the clause "Sending typing and inking to Micro$oft..."?

I dunno whether it meant a keylogger.....

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... because you know I had to repost it:
> http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html
> (the author also points out Linux is no fun, either.)
> Some good suggestions on alleviating some of the worst frustrations.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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Dan Covill
2015-08-27 16:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Baffled me, too.  However, I think that "inking" may refer to the some new facilities in Win 10 for pen input.  I never used
that and never will, but I think it's kind of an analog to Cortana, another way to get faster input into tablets and other 
mobile devices.  So my "inking" is my pen input.  

So it occurs to me, are they planning to send my "mumbling" along with my "typing and inking"?

Dan

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:56:51 +0800
> Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..
> From: ***@gmail.com
> To: ***@leafe.com
>
> Anyone wanna talk about the privacy issue in Win 10 free upgrade, about
> the clause "Sending typing and inking to Micro$oft..."?
>
> I dunno whether it meant a keylogger.....
>


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