New Term: Zombie Language

[Paul H. Tarver]

Did anyone catch this article about "Zombie Languages"?



https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-languages-could-visu
al-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-languages-could-vis
ual-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=19995525687222274123473679
288983> &bhid=19995525687222274123473679288983



While the article focuses on Visual Basic, I think VFP qualifies under their
definition:



Zombie Languages: "Those old developer favorites that refuse to die"



To be honest, it makes all of us FoxPro coders cool again: We are all
"Zombie Wranglers!"



~~~~~~~ Pull Quote ~~~~~~~

James Milligan also drew parallels with the perennial demand for programmers
skilled in venerable mainframe programming language COBOL, a language older
than The Beatles.



"Other languages which continue to be widely used despite running legacy
systems include COBOL. It's known that COBOL tends to be preferred in
business, finance and administrative systems due to its efficiency in
handling large volumes of data - so it's predicted to remain popular across
these sectors."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Paul





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[Fernando D. Bozzo]

I don't feel bad about it, really, but this makes clear that the Author of
the article probably never did work with this languages and didn't work
maintaining any systems developed in those now zombie languages.

I think that those stats have much sense if you think that there is too
much code working in production and that all this situations can justify
this reborn on TIOBE:

- You have to maintain a legacy system (VB in this case) and you need to
search some info about language functionality or parameters, what do you
do? If you have not installed the MSDN on your disk, then you search it on
Google

- The same applies to old ASP pages with VBscript. You probably search for
VBscript or VB6

- You need to search some examples about COM functionality (COM components,
Soap, XML, WMI, etc) used from an old Windows language, what do you do? you
search it on Google, and probably you search for a VB6 example even if you
are interested in VFP or other language. Why? because VB6 have always been
the Microsoft preference in last century, and most examples are done using
VB6. I did search the other day for a VB6 example if something that I want
to call from VFP!

And the same applies to any COM compatible language. It's easier to find
something for VB6 than for anything else.

Fernando D. Bozzo

Post by Paul H. Tarver
Did anyone catch this article about "Zombie Languages"?
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-
languages-could-visu
al-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-
languages-could-vis
ual-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=
19995525687222274123473679
288983> &bhid=19995525687222274123473679288983
While the article focuses on Visual Basic, I think VFP qualifies under their
Zombie Languages: "Those old developer favorites that refuse to die"
To be honest, it makes all of us FoxPro coders cool again: We are all
"Zombie Wranglers!"
~~~~~~~ Pull Quote ~~~~~~~
James Milligan also drew parallels with the perennial demand for programmers
skilled in venerable mainframe programming language COBOL, a language older
than The Beatles.
"Other languages which continue to be widely used despite running legacy
systems include COBOL. It's known that COBOL tends to be preferred in
business, finance and administrative systems due to its efficiency in
handling large volumes of data - so it's predicted to remain popular across
these sectors."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[Stephen Russell]

Or Night of the Living Dead.

Bad __Stephen

Post by Paul H. Tarver
Did anyone catch this article about "Zombie Languages"?
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-
languages-could-visu
al-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-
languages-could-vis
ual-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=
19995525687222274123473679
288983> &bhid=19995525687222274123473679288983
While the article focuses on Visual Basic, I think VFP qualifies under their
Zombie Languages: "Those old developer favorites that refuse to die"
To be honest, it makes all of us FoxPro coders cool again: We are all
"Zombie Wranglers!"
~~~~~~~ Pull Quote ~~~~~~~
James Milligan also drew parallels with the perennial demand for programmers
skilled in venerable mainframe programming language COBOL, a language older
than The Beatles.
"Other languages which continue to be widely used despite running legacy
systems include COBOL. It's known that COBOL tends to be preferred in
business, finance and administrative systems due to its efficiency in
handling large volumes of data - so it's predicted to remain popular across
these sectors."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[Gene Wirchenko]

Post by Paul H. Tarver
Did anyone catch this article about "Zombie Languages"?
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-languages-could-visu
al-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-languages-could-vis
ual-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=19995525687222274123473679
288983> &bhid=19995525687222274123473679288983
While the article focuses on Visual Basic, I think VFP qualifies under their
Zombie Languages: "Those old developer favorites that refuse to die"
To be honest, it makes all of us FoxPro coders cool again: We are all
"Zombie Wranglers!"
~~~~~~~ Pull Quote ~~~~~~~
James Milligan also drew parallels with the perennial demand for programmers
skilled in venerable mainframe programming language COBOL, a language older
than The Beatles.
"Other languages which continue to be widely used despite running legacy
systems include COBOL. It's known that COBOL tends to be preferred in
business, finance and administrative systems due to its efficiency in
handling large volumes of data - so it's predicted to remain popular across
these sectors."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

zombie language n. a language that is tried and proven that someone
wishes to take a swipe at. See also legacy.

legacy adj. A pejorative term used in the computer industry meaning "it works."

The first is mine; the latter is from my sig collection.

It is interesting how these sorts of articles do not seem to
get into why the language is still around.

Hoare said about Algol 60, "Here is a language so far ahead of
its time, that it was not only an improvement on its predecessors,
but also on nearly all its successors."

Rather than going ape over the language du jour, more attention
could and should be paid to workhorses that get the job done and have
a record for doing so.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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[Kurt at VRFX]

Cheers Gene - I agree with all you have said!!!

:-)

-K-

Post by Gene Wirchenko

Post by Paul H. Tarver
Did anyone catch this article about "Zombie Languages"?
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-languages-could-visu
al-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/zombie-programming-languages-could-vis
ual-basic-be-the-next-cobol/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=19995525687222274123473679
288983> &bhid=19995525687222274123473679288983
While the article focuses on Visual Basic, I think VFP qualifies under their
Zombie Languages: "Those old developer favorites that refuse to die"
To be honest, it makes all of us FoxPro coders cool again: We are all
"Zombie Wranglers!"
~~~~~~~ Pull Quote ~~~~~~~
James Milligan also drew parallels with the perennial demand for programmers
skilled in venerable mainframe programming language COBOL, a language older
than The Beatles.
"Other languages which continue to be widely used despite running legacy
systems include COBOL. It's known that COBOL tends to be preferred in
business, finance and administrative systems due to its efficiency in
handling large volumes of data - so it's predicted to remain popular across
these sectors."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

zombie language n. a language that is tried and proven that someone
wishes to take a swipe at.  See also legacy.
legacy adj. A pejorative term used in the computer industry meaning "it works."
     The first is mine; the latter is from my sig collection.
     It is interesting how these sorts of articles do not seem to get
into why the language is still around.
     Hoare said about Algol 60, "Here is a language so far ahead of
its time, that it was not only an improvement on its predecessors, but
also on nearly all its successors."
     Rather than going ape over the language du jour, more attention
could and should be paid to workhorses that get the job done and have
a record for doing so.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[John Weller]

Love the definitions!

John

John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631

Post by Gene Wirchenko
zombie language n. a language that is tried and proven that someone
wishes to take a swipe at. See also legacy.
legacy adj. A pejorative term used in the computer industry meaning "it works."

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[Laurie Alvey]

I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

Laurie

Post by John Weller
Love the definitions!
John
John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631

Post by Gene Wirchenko
zombie language n. a language that is tried and proven that someone
wishes to take a swipe at. See also legacy.
legacy adj. A pejorative term used in the computer industry meaning "it works."

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[Ted Roche]

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available (see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28programming_language%29
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Pascal

for example) and so there are niche specialties that continue to use
them for specialized applications.

Contrast those with zombie languages where you have to find
20-year-old floppy-disk or CD-based installers to install a
proprietary IDE on a new machine. Those are walking dead.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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[Alan Bourke]

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .

In the case of Pascal there's also Delphi and Oxygene in the commercial products world. Pascal is far from a zombie language.

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[Ted Roche]

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .

And the same could be said of Fortran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran

61 years old, major player in weather modeling, climate change,
nuclear power/weapons, astronomy. Big use on supercomputers.

Prolly not what you'll write your next smartphone app in, but still
something with a place.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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[Dave Crozier]

Old languages die slowly - as we well know!

I was brought up on Algol 60, Algol 68 with Fortran 4 being as far as I got before I moved on to Cobol and then to RM Cobol when "personal PC's " came of age.

I don't know whether it is still true but RM Cobol (Ryan McFarland) was for a long time touted to be THE most popular programming language out there as it used standard Structured Cobol with additions and eventually even moved on to encompass OOP thinking!.

Many, many mainframe systems are still written in Cobol - personally I hated it and was relieved to move on to Assembler coding at Singer/ICL before discovering the FOX!

Dave Crozier
Software Development Manager
Flexipol Packaging Ltd.



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-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: 19 February 2018 13:30
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: New Term: Zombie Language

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .

And the same could be said of Fortran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran

61 years old, major player in weather modeling, climate change, nuclear power/weapons, astronomy. Big use on supercomputers.

Prolly not what you'll write your next smartphone app in, but still something with a place.


--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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[m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com]

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .

In the case of Pascal there's also Delphi and Oxygene in the
commercial products world. Pascal is far from a zombie language.

Pascal was one of my first true programming language loves. Beautiful
language from my recollection of 30 years ago.

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[Ricardo Araoz]

Does anyone remember PL/I?

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .

In the case of Pascal there's also Delphi and Oxygene in the
commercial products world. Pascal is far from a zombie language.

Pascal was one of my first true programming language loves. Beautiful
language from my recollection of 30 years ago.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[AndyHC]

yep, if you knew a bit of Fortran and a bit of COBOL you knew ... a bit
of PL1

Post by Ricardo Araoz
Does anyone remember PL/I?

<snip>

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[Man-wai Chang]

Some big companies are still using it... not popular though.

Post by Ricardo Araoz
Does anyone remember PL/I?

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Fedora 25 Server Spin
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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[Gene Wirchenko]

Post by Ricardo Araoz
Does anyone remember PL/I?

Yes.

It looked like it might be good, but it was so difficult to
write a bulletproof program. (I tried.) All those ON units. The
modern equivalent of that terror is exceptions.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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[Gene Wirchenko]

Post by m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Laurie Alvey
I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .

In the case of Pascal there's also Delphi and Oxygene in the
commercial products world. Pascal is far from a zombie language.

Pascal was one of my first true programming language
loves. Beautiful language from my recollection of 30 years ago.

Yech! I felt more along the lines of Brian Kernighan who wrote
https://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html in 1981. The
language may well have changed considerably since then, but one of
his concerns at the time was writing a piece of software that could
be easily ported and so he wanted to use standard Pascal.

Personally, I hate the way Pascal handled sequential
reads. Priming reads are nasty.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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