[NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

[Stephen Russell]

Great watch here.

Super Hacker George Hotz: I Can Make Your Car Drive Itself for Under $1,000

I like how he looks at a problem.
--
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CAJidMYKm_7=vdJsg0VZ7HGPHi9wEmtU+***@mail.gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Kurt Wendt]

Steve - pretty Cool Arse video! I especially got a kick out of one shot about 1:40 in which shows Zortrax 3D Printers being used for his devices. I will continue to watch the rest of the video piecemeal - as its definitely interesting!

-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Russell
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:00 PM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

Great watch here.

Super Hacker George Hotz: I Can Make Your Car Drive Itself for Under $1,000
http://youtu.be/aqdYbwY9vPU
I like how he looks at a problem.
--
Stephen Russell

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@DREXCH02.corp.globetax.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[AndyHC]

I don't think either of my cars have the interfaces he plans to plug
into (2009 Audi A3; 2010 Tata Nano).

Post by Stephen Russell
Great watch here.
Super Hacker George Hotz: I Can Make Your Car Drive Itself for Under $1,000
http://youtu.be/aqdYbwY9vPU
I like how he looks at a problem.

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/e5b83771-8bc7-6704-87ee-***@hawthorncottage.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Michael Madigan]

Interesting video.  I wonder if it will pan out.  Remember all the hype about hydrogen cars?

From: Stephen Russell <***@gmail.com>
To: ProFox Email List <***@leafe.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:00 PM
Subject: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

Great watch here.

Super Hacker George Hotz: I Can Make Your Car Drive Itself for Under $1,000

http://youtu.be/aqdYbwY9vPU

I like how he looks at a problem.
--
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@mail.yahoo.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid

[Alan Bourke]

Post by Michael Madigan
Interesting video.  I wonder if it will pan out.  Remember all the hype
about hydrogen cars?

I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles
in any of our lifetimes. Even if the tech problems were solved, which
they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what
problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into
driver education and enforcement would yield better returns. About the
only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@webmail.messagingengine.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid t

[Ed Leafe]

Post by Alan Bourke
I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles
in any of our lifetimes. Even if the tech problems were solved, which
they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what
problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into
driver education and enforcement would yield better returns. About the
only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

Think of it as mass transit that is tailored to each person’s needs. Buses and trains are OK, but they only go to certain places at certain times. What if I have an opportunity to work somewhere, but it is a bit far away and I don’t have enough money to own a car. A system of state-owned autonomous cars would mean that I could get a ride to and from work when I need to go, and only pay for that, instead of having to buy an entire car for myself. Or perhaps I’m old and the only market I can walk to is expensive and has a terrible selection. With autonomous cars, I could be driven to a much better market without having to pay for exorbitant taxi fees.

Those are just examples I made up just now. Personally, I own a car, but since I work from my home, I rarely need it. Most of the time it sits in the driveway, and is only used when I have to go somewhere. I would much prefer to pull up an app on my phone, get picked up and taken to my destination, and would gladly pay what that would cost. It would be much, much cheaper than having to shell out the huge down payment and significant monthly payments on my car, as well as the several thousand dollars of insurance I pay each year just to have that car available when I need it. Fortunately for me I earn enough to afford such luxury, but not everyone is as fortunate as I am.

-- Ed Leafe






_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/FEFA711B-3810-4480-B9B4-***@leafe.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawy

[Stephen Russell]

Why not rent when you need the vehicle as in your expample, not your
personal life.

To me the vehicle is freedom. I don't like the cruise experience because I
have to give up all freedom of coming and going when I want to. Having an
app on my phone is just intrusive to my life. I need to get to the store
because I need two ingredients from the international food store for some
chili for this weekend. I don't want to get a ride there and have to wait
for a second ride back. My time is too valuable waiting for a cab by any
other name.

Post by Ed Leafe

Post by Alan Bourke
I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles
in any of our lifetimes. Even if the tech problems were solved, which
they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what
problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into
driver education and enforcement would yield better returns. About the
only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

Think of it as mass transit that is tailored to each person’s needs. Buses
and trains are OK, but they only go to certain places at certain times.
What if I have an opportunity to work somewhere, but it is a bit far away
and I don’t have enough money to own a car. A system of state-owned
autonomous cars would mean that I could get a ride to and from work when I
need to go, and only pay for that, instead of having to buy an entire car
for myself. Or perhaps I’m old and the only market I can walk to is
expensive and has a terrible selection. With autonomous cars, I could be
driven to a much better market without having to pay for exorbitant taxi
fees.
Those are just examples I made up just now. Personally, I own a car, but
since I work from my home, I rarely need it. Most of the time it sits in
the driveway, and is only used when I have to go somewhere. I would much
prefer to pull up an app on my phone, get picked up and taken to my
destination, and would gladly pay what that would cost. It would be much,
much cheaper than having to shell out the huge down payment and significant
monthly payments on my car, as well as the several thousand dollars of
insurance I pay each year just to have that car available when I need it.
Fortunately for me I earn enough to afford such luxury, but not everyone is
as fortunate as I am.
-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CAJidMYKAkiLt-XCK+LL_FTU8_cA9SS5RLq-***@mail.gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers wh

[Ken Kixmoeller (ProFox)]

State owned vehicles?
That one crossed the line. Big Brother is more present today that ever.

<sarcasm>Public ownership is Competent, Good, and *Never* Corrupted or
Tainted by Unions or Major Corporations. Never. Really. </sarcasm>

Drifted fully OT, sorry.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CAFyV=L=GMFFJcx8sRgLqn5ubx_48fk+tby=***@mail.gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com]

A fleet of state-owned autonomous cars would give me that freedom: pay
for what
you need, and not for idle time.

So tax dollars are paying for this fleet?

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Ed Leafe]

Post by m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com

A fleet of state-owned autonomous cars would give me that freedom: pay for what
you need, and not for idle time.

So tax dollars are paying for this fleet?

Some would be from the general highway/road taxes, I would imagine. But people would be charged per use.

-- Ed Leafe






_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/FF033E2A-C3BA-4962-A6FD-***@leafe.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Paul H. Tarver]

Actually, I wasn't endorsing the idea of the "state-owned vehicles" which
was part of Ed's comment. But I used the word "authority" because I'm
assuming even if it was a privately outsourced service, it would be heavily
regulated.

My point was more about the fact that I can just see someone eating in the
cars, leaving either their valuables or their trash in the cars, doing drugs
or drinking in the cars and all sorts of fun and wonderful stuff that we
can't even or won't imagine. Do you want a car show up at your house to
take you and the family to a movie and find inappropriate stuff in the car?
Because you know it will happen. :)

The real challenge a privately held corporation will have in providing this
kind of service is one of liability. Just take a look at late night tv and
you can see how much litigation is generated by the drug industry. I'm
guessing that "Big Car Sharing" businesses would be just as much of a target
as "Big Pharma", "Big Food", etc. All it will take is one accident and the
attorneys will be lined up with class-action lawsuits ready to go.

However, I do see programming opportunities here:

1) Ride Order Processing and Customer Management Systems
2) Cleaning Schedule Management Systems
3) Maintenance Scheduling Systems
4) Compliance Management Systems
5) Web-Based & Mobile Based Ordering Systems
6) Customer History Tracking Systems (Where they been, where they are going,
who they spoke with, etc)
7) Audio Analysis of captured conversations while in transit (NSA & Homeland
notified only when necessary)
8) In Car Camera monitoring systems (legal purposes only such as in defense
of accidents, of course!)

Paul H. Tarver

-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Stephen
Russell
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 8:54 AM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

State owned vehicles?

That one crossed the line. Big Brother is more present today that ever.

I like the idea of what you suggest Ed, but the reality will not be good.
Most people are slobs. Don't believe me? Look in the windows of cars
in parking lots anywhere in the Country and you'll see what I mean.
And I'm just as guilty as the next person, so I'm not calling anyone
out here without calling out myself too.
I can just imagine how some of these "shared" ride cars would be like
on the inside after a few hundred trips even if the authority running
the program cleaned the cars on a regular basis.
Paraphrasing George Carlin, "my mess is stuff and your mess is gross".
:)
Paul H. Tarver
-----Original Message-----
Leafe
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

Post by Stephen Russell
Why not rent when you need the vehicle as in your expample, not your
personal life.

Sure, if the vehicle would come to my house when I need it, and when I
return home, it drives itself away. Or if I want to travel somewhere
for the day, I would want to rent it to get there, and then again to
return home, but not for the hours/days that I am there. A fleet of
state-owned autonomous cars would give me that freedom: pay for what
you need, and not for idle time.
-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/00b601d35c93$5b1929c0$114b7d40$@tpcqpc.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Ed Leafe]

I can just imagine how some of these "shared" ride cars would be like on the
inside after a few hundred trips even if the authority running the program
cleaned the cars on a regular basis.

Sure, that would definitely be something to consider, especially after longer trips.

-- Ed Leafe






_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/6488065B-4C48-471B-AC91-***@leafe.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Ed Leafe]

State owned vehicles?
That one crossed the line. Big Brother is more present today that ever.

Simply for the standardization. Imagine several different entities coming up with their own communication system for self-driving - that would be a nightmare.

Besides, if you carry a cell phone or use a credit card, big brother can already track you.


-- Ed Leafe






_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/BBEB6451-9B5D-434D-92F1-***@leafe.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Jürgen Wondzinski]

Hi Alan,

I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. <<

You should read Elon Musk's view of the world problems. Start reading here:
https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html

The interesting part (for this thread at least) is about the climatic and energy problems. We need less privately owned cars, because all cars are used only 10% of the day. The other 90% they just occupy space. That's where autonmous driving kicks in: You just call a car and it will drive to your location. After you're done, it just waits for the next caller. And guess wwhat: The Tesla Model3 is already completely adopted to that idea. It's completely electronically controlled (that's why you don't find any regular switches, knobs or whatever, besides of the some elementary things like blinker, light, direction). The idea is that your car earns his money at times where you don't need it, by renting it to other passengers. We could reduce pollution, energy-consumption and city-crowding with that concept. Just imagine a car which parks itself, connects to a charger by itself and drives to your location to pick you up. All done with AI and autonmous driving.

wOOdy



_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/006501d35a0d$fdee3d80$f9cab880$@wondzinski.de
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Alan Bourke]

Post by Jürgen Wondzinski
All done with AI and autonmous driving.

Neither of those things exist though, despite a lot of hype around at
the minute.

Especially AI in any sort of broad meaning of the term. An automobile
visual system that can make a value judgement to run over a dog instead
of a child in a split second where those two things run out onto the
road and it's too late to brake - are we any closer to that than we were
20 years ago?

I think if it's work commuting we're trying to eliminate then
decentralisation and serious adoption of homeworking would be a more
realistic goal.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@webmail.messagingengine.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[AndyHC]

+2

<......>
I think if it's work commuting we're trying to eliminate then
decentralisation and serious adoption of homeworking would be a more
realistic goal.

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/f5b5990c-8f20-f7e8-daa2-***@hawthorncottage.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com]

Post by Alan Bourke
I think if it's work commuting we're trying to eliminate then
decentralisation and serious adoption of homeworking would be a more
realistic goal.

I think nearly everybody would love that goal.

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Gene Wirchenko]

Post by m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com

Post by Alan Bourke
I think if it's work commuting we're trying to eliminate then
decentralisation and serious adoption of homeworking would be a more
realistic goal.

I think nearly everybody would love that goal.

I am getting caught up in my ProFox reading. There are a lot
of posts that I would have liked to have replied to but have not
because of the delay.

HOWEVER, I can not let this one go.

I have worked at home on VFP. It is horribly lonely. I have
some on-line contact (like ProFox) that helps mitigate this. That
means that working at home is "only" horribly lonely.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@mtlp000086
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com]

Post by Jürgen Wondzinski
Hi Alan,

I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. <<

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html
The interesting part (for this thread at least) is about the climatic
and energy problems. We need less privately owned cars, because all
cars are used only 10% of the day. The other 90% they just occupy
space. That's where autonmous driving kicks in: You just call a car
and it will drive to your location. After you're done, it just waits
for the next caller. And guess wwhat: The Tesla Model3 is already
completely adopted to that idea. It's completely electronically
controlled (that's why you don't find any regular switches, knobs or
whatever, besides of the some elementary things like blinker, light,
direction). The idea is that your car earns his money at times where
you don't need it, by renting it to other passengers. We could reduce
pollution, energy-consumption and city-crowding with that concept.
Just imagine a car which parks itself, connects to a charger by itself
and drives to your location to pick you up. All done with AI and
autonmous driving.
wOOdy

https://www.google.com/search?q=SkyNet&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiV-6eO57vXAhVh5oMKHf9DAzAQiR4IrwE&biw=1920&bih=987


lol


_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid t

[Ted Roche]

Post by Alan Bourke
I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles
in any of our lifetimes.

I doubt the automobile will replace the horse. People want to feel in
charge, go where they want to go, and cars are so unreliable, breaking
down all the time.

Post by Alan Bourke
Even if the tech problems were solved, which
they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what
problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into
driver education and enforcement would yield better returns.

Despite pouring millions into education, insurance programs, safety
devices from seatbelts to airbags, deaths per million miles went UP
last year. In the US alone, 40 THOUSAND people died on the roads. The
fact is, people are lousy drivers, and imperfect automation is already
better, but the numbers.

Post by Alan Bourke
About the only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

The only thing is, we're all disabled.

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CACW6n4szB48zyHLXAWNiuJp3KOKDUa-QL4j-***@mail.gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[John Weller]

Milan, rush hour - it'll need a complete processor just to handle the horn!

John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631

I keep hearing this but based on what evidence? It might do OK on wide
motorways\freeways\autobahns but take it somewhere like the centre of
Milan at rush hour.

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/001501d35c6f$2ab84140$8028c3c0$@johnweller.co.uk
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Peter Cushing]

Post by John Weller
Milan, rush hour - it'll need a complete processor just to handle the horn!

Not seen Milan rush hour but can't be any worse than Rome.  That was
scary just trying to cross the road - on a crossing!

Peter


This communication is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. The contents are confidential and may be protected in law. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email.

www.whisperingsmith.com

Whispering Smith Ltd Head Office:61 Great Ducie Street, Manchester M3 1RR.
Tel:[phone]
Fax:[phone]

London Office:17-19 Foley Street, London W1W 6DW Tel:[phone]




_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/b722585e-50af-c643-fc70-***@whisperingsmith.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those l

[Charlie-gm]

Post by Ted Roche

Post by Alan Bourke
I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles
in any of our lifetimes.

I doubt the automobile will replace the horse. People want to feel in
charge, go where they want to go, and cars are so unreliable, breaking
down all the time.

I think it did take more than a lifetime for the vehicle to replace the
horse (counting the development all required technology).

Apart from that, my view is that self-driving cars are fine if they are
still personally owned. If the "state" owns them and we have to use them
we'll be in big trouble. Injury and deaths due to self-driving accidents
will have no recourse for the injured parties. That is, the government
has the power to prevent its citizenry from suing (this is the case even
now in other areas of government responsibility).

What would eventually happen is politicians would assign themselves
priority use of vehicles and traffic lanes. Then, heck, why not refuse
to let any of the self-driving cars go to facilities that are
"questionable" to the government (aka known institutions that speak out
against the government - kind of like how Lerner and the IRS did a few
years ago).

And lets not forget those fun-loving hackers. If you think they are
headaches when trying to grab credit card info, just wait until they can
shut down whole cities.

But really, we already have "self-driving" cars: a taxi. Sure the
"self-driver" is a person instead of software, but you don't have to
manage the traffic. Maybe self-driving taxis would be cheaper. But as
others have pointed out, the same level of liability would be on the
owning company. And boy, for decades we've witnessed the stupidity of
lawyers trying to argue details of technical implementations. So I can
only imagine the court cases that may come from those accidents.

And of course, we are all disabled in one way or another. The most
dangerous thought, however, is that some of us are more disabled than
others, or that some of us are just "better" than others. That leads to
the thinking that ultimate power should be given to a few to control
masses. In that case, empirical history shows that is the recipe for
truly horrible atrocities. That may seem like a long stretch from
self-driving cars, but if the justification is that a few of us are just
better and smarter and have more "rights" to control those other
inferior folks.... I hope the correlation isn't lost.

-Charlie


_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/d57450ec-d7d6-0144-3a6a-***@gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Michael Madigan]

many of those deaths are alcohol and drug related, possibly fixed with self-driving cars

From: Ted Roche <***@gmail.com>
To: "***@leafe.com" <***@leafe.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

Post by Alan Bourke
I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles
in any of our lifetimes.

I doubt the automobile will replace the horse. People want to feel in
charge, go where they want to go, and cars are so unreliable, breaking
down all the time.

Post by Alan Bourke
Even if the tech problems were solved, which
they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what
problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into
driver education and enforcement would yield better returns.

Despite pouring millions into education, insurance programs, safety
devices from seatbelts to airbags, deaths per million miles went UP
last year. In the US alone, 40 THOUSAND people died on the roads. The
fact is, people are lousy drivers, and imperfect automation is already
better, but the numbers.

Post by Alan Bourke
  About the only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

The only thing is, we're all disabled.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/***@mail.yahoo.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see

[Jerry Wolper]

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Jürgen Wondzinski
All done with AI and autonmous driving.

Neither of those things exist though, despite a lot of hype around at
the minute.

Uber's been testing self-driving cars around Pittsburgh for a while now,
and there haven't been reports of kids or dogs or other cars getting hit.
It's still a test, and there's still someone in the front seat, but seeing
one of those cars is no longer a novelty. (Other tests are going on in
other cities.)

-Jerry


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CAKSNnOHxDdf06wLgcL76_ebbd6J48--_60JSz=t2z+***@mail.gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Kurt Wendt]

<div dir='auto'>Gene - I SO Agree with you - Its why I don't like working from home - as its lonely and I am a VERY Social type animal!!!!<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">&nbsp;But now - I don't have a choice...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">:-(</div><div dir="auto">-K-</div></div>
_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/7f4e7572-9486-41d5-a58b-***@email.android.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Michael Oke, II]

[image: MailTag]
I've done both and working from home is only lonely if you don't get out
and socialize some. I don't like working in coffee shops but taking a
break and heading over to one and having a conversation with the people
that are there breaks up the monotony of working in an isolated
environment.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

-----------------------------
Michael Oke, II
***@gmail.com
661-349-6221
-----------------------------

Post by Kurt Wendt
<div dir='auto'>Gene - I SO Agree with you - Its why I don't like working
from home - as its lonely and I am a VERY Social type animal!!!!<div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">&nbsp;But now - I don't have a
choice...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">:-(</div><div
dir="auto">-K-</div></div>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________
Post Messages to: ***@leafe.com
Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox
OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech
Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox
This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CACBEV=UDofDa4m7M_NMUrdFBLmKVfH165eWu+***@mail.gmail.com
** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.