[NF] Broken Windows

[Ted Roche]

Something is seriously wrong at MSFT.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/189344/windows-10-version-1809-suffers-from-yet-another-data-loss-bug

The re-release of the "Feature Update 1809" i.e., the new version of
windows for September '18, hence 1809, is deleting user's data, again.

I strongly recommend you turn off Updates as best you can. I've set all our
machines here to "Metered" connections and set "Feature" updates to a 365
day delay and Security updates to a 30 day delay.

I think Windows has gotten too complex for MS to understand. Shadow
directories and fake redirections and everything dependent not on the OS or
the File System, but the Registry, may just be a step too far.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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[Gene Wirchenko]

Post by Ted Roche
Something is seriously wrong at MSFT.

No VFP development.

What? There is more?

Post by Ted Roche
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/189344/windows-10-version-1809-suffers-from-yet-another-data-loss-bug

I just read another article on this and submitted it to RISKS.

Post by Ted Roche
The re-release of the "Feature Update 1809" i.e., the new version of
windows for September '18, hence 1809, is deleting user's data, again.

I got the idea of a monster movie with the tag, "Will it kill again?"

Post by Ted Roche
I strongly recommend you turn off Updates as best you can. I've set all our
machines here to "Metered" connections and set "Feature" updates to a 365
day delay and Security updates to a 30 day delay.

Mine are off since, well, years. I am so glad that I am still
on Windows 7.

Post by Ted Roche
I think Windows has gotten too complex for MS to understand. Shadow
directories and fake redirections and everything dependent not on the OS or
the File System, but the Registry, may just be a step too far.

A Big Ball of Mud.

"... may ..."? "... a step ..."? Such optimism.

I am using PKZIP version 2.04g. At 25 years old, it may be
older than some of those Microsoft programmers. It might work better, too.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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[Man-wai Chang]

Post by Gene Wirchenko
I am using PKZIP version 2.04g. At 25 years old, it may be
older than some of those Microsoft programmers. It might work better, too.

7-zip is fine! I think it has a command-line version.
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Fedora 25 Server Spin
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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[Fernando D. Bozzo]

Yes, it has, it's called 7za and is open source too.

Post by Man-wai Chang

Post by Gene Wirchenko
I am using PKZIP version 2.04g. At 25 years old, it may be
older than some of those Microsoft programmers. It might work better,

too.
7-zip is fine! I think it has a command-line version.
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Fedora 25 Server Spin
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[Alan Bourke]

Post by Ted Roche
I think Windows has gotten too complex for MS to understand. Shadow
directories and fake redirections and everything dependent not on the OS or
the File System, but the Registry, may just be a step too far.

What's actually happened is described pretty well in this article - basically they laid off a load of traditional QA and testing professionals in 2014 and are now relying on some sort of crowdsourced bullshit for QA, using people who are on the beta releases, i.e.e fanboys.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/


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[Ted Roche]

Post by Alan Bourke
What's actually happened is described pretty well in this article -
basically they laid off a load of traditional QA and testing professionals
in 2014 and are now relying on some sort of crowdsourced bullshit for QA,
using people who are on the beta releases, i.e.e fanboys.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/

Thanks for the excellent link. Sorry to hear about the MS testers who got
canned. I know the Fox engineers did some amazing work to get us a high
quality product.

It's funny how Linux can ship good code with crowd-sourced testing, and
Apache and OpenSSH and the open-source communities that power DNS and email
and the rest. I suspect there has been a long process of developing the
protocols and processes to make that a success. And also that it's not just
guys living in their parent's basements: RedHat and IBM and Dell and HP
contribute their own software and have pretty serious engineering efforts.

"Throw it over the wall and see how loud they scream" is not a testing
methodology.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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[John Weller]

"Throw it over the wall and see how loud they scream" is not a testing
methodology.

Love it!

John Weller


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[m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com]

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Ted Roche
I think Windows has gotten too complex for MS to understand. Shadow
directories and fake redirections and everything dependent not on the OS or
the File System, but the Registry, may just be a step too far.

What's actually happened is described pretty well in this article -
basically they laid off a load of traditional QA and testing
professionals in 2014 and are now relying on some sort of crowdsourced
bullshit for QA, using people who are on the beta releases, i.e.e
fanboys.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/

I heard this happening awhile back, when they laid off John Koziol (who
worked in Q/A there, didn't he?). No surprise. All that money (more
money than any other company perhaps) and they're too cheap to do
testing the right way. Ugh.

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[Stephen Russell]

Testing is done differently today than it was 20 years ago.

It doesn't replace real people from final testing but it does reduce their
need on early bugs that is for sure.

I don't allow your code to be saved if your code breaks the build we have
in place. You get notified of it right after you submit it.

Post by m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Ted Roche
I think Windows has gotten too complex for MS to understand. Shadow
directories and fake redirections and everything dependent not on the OS or
the File System, but the Registry, may just be a step too far.

What's actually happened is described pretty well in this article -
basically they laid off a load of traditional QA and testing
professionals in 2014 and are now relying on some sort of crowdsourced
bullshit for QA, using people who are on the beta releases, i.e.e
fanboys.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/

I heard this happening awhile back, when they laid off John Koziol (who
worked in Q/A there, didn't he?). No surprise. All that money (more
money than any other company perhaps) and they're too cheap to do
testing the right way. Ugh.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[Gene Wirchenko]

At 04:08 2018-10-24, Ted Roche <***@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

Post by Ted Roche
"Throw it over the wall and see how loud they scream" is not a testing
methodology.

Sure it is. It works great for testing a heuristic-based
targeting system.

Sincerely,

Gene "straight over or with a bit of a curve?" Wirchenko


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[Ted Roche]

Post by Gene Wirchenko
Gene "straight over or with a bit of a curve?"

Spin. It's all in the wrist.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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[Man-wai Chang]

Post by Ted Roche
I think Windows has gotten too complex for MS to understand. Shadow
directories and fake redirections and everything dependent not on the OS or
the File System, but the Registry, may just be a step too far.

Which means Micro$oft might need to rewrite it again? ;)
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Fedora 25 Server Spin
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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[Ted Roche]

Post by Man-wai Chang
Which means Micro$oft might need to rewrite it again? ;)

Well, they bought DOS, slapped a gui on it, sold that for nearly 20 years,
moving it from 16- to 32-bit, yay Win32s!

Windows, 2.0, 3.1, 3.1, 3.11, W4Workgroups, W4Tablets, w4Work, Win95, 98,
Millenium

They teamed up with IBM to write OS/2 later "WARP," using Windows New
Technology with the New Technology File System.

Then they torpedoed IBM and released it as Windows NT. And that's what we
are running today, Windows NT 3, 3.5, 3.51, 4, 7, Windows Vista, Windows 8,
Windows 10. They've glommed a lot of stuff on top, but it's Windows NT on
NTFS with its lousy security model, patched over with a new domain model
and Policy enforcement, but it's the Registry and LAN Man and the same old
print queue.

It's tens of millions of lines of code, written mostly by people who don't
work there any more. It's huge, it's heavy, it's buggy. And it runs on
Desktops. And Servers. And not much else. Not smartphones, not lightweight
tables, not the internet. Ignoring Windows CE (which still exists, running
my settop box -*shudder), WindowsPhone, and XBox OS, all speciality
spinoffs.

Perhaps they should rewrite it. Third time's the charm, or so they
mythology goes within MS.

Highly recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows for a
refresher on the history. Good overview.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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[Alan Bourke]

Post by Ted Roche
Win32s

I remember that piece of crap - trying to get a Filemaker application working with it.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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[Ted Roche]

Post by Alan Bourke

Post by Ted Roche
Win32s

I remember that piece of crap - trying to get a Filemaker application working with it.

That's where I learned the term "thunk layer."
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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[m***@mbsoftwaresolutions.com]

Post by Ted Roche
Perhaps they should rewrite it. Third time's the charm, or so they
mythology goes within MS.
Highly recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows for a
refresher on the history. Good overview.

I'm pretty safe in saying they will NEVER rewrite it from scratch. It'd
take too long to deliver.

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[Fletcher Johnson]

Or you might ask them why Visual Studio is only a 32 bit application....
Yes, it can build 64 bit apps, but they can't figure out how to compile it
as a working 64 bit app. And if they can't fix that in all the time they
have had, how would you expect them to redo windows????

Maybe they are hoping we will all move to Linux and run our apps on Azure
instead.... Much less work for them to support... All I know is that they
are doing their best to piss off everyone they can.


Fletcher Johnson
***@Yahoo.com
LinkedIn.com/in/FletcherJohnson
beknown.com/FletcherJohnson
twitter.com/fletcherJ
twitter.com/svcsug
strava.com/athletes/fletcherjohnson
408-946-0960 - work
408-781-2345 - cell

-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-***@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:34 AM
To: ***@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Broken Windows

Post by Man-wai Chang
Which means Micro$oft might need to rewrite it again? ;)

Well, they bought DOS, slapped a gui on it, sold that for nearly 20 years,
moving it from 16- to 32-bit, yay Win32s!

Windows, 2.0, 3.1, 3.1, 3.11, W4Workgroups, W4Tablets, w4Work, Win95, 98,
Millenium

They teamed up with IBM to write OS/2 later "WARP," using Windows New
Technology with the New Technology File System.

Then they torpedoed IBM and released it as Windows NT. And that's what we
are running today, Windows NT 3, 3.5, 3.51, 4, 7, Windows Vista, Windows 8,
Windows 10. They've glommed a lot of stuff on top, but it's Windows NT on
NTFS with its lousy security model, patched over with a new domain model
and Policy enforcement, but it's the Registry and LAN Man and the same old
print queue.

It's tens of millions of lines of code, written mostly by people who don't
work there any more. It's huge, it's heavy, it's buggy. And it runs on
Desktops. And Servers. And not much else. Not smartphones, not lightweight
tables, not the internet. Ignoring Windows CE (which still exists, running
my settop box -*shudder), WindowsPhone, and XBox OS, all speciality
spinoffs.

Perhaps they should rewrite it. Third time's the charm, or so they
mythology goes within MS.

Highly recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows for a
refresher on the history. Good overview.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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[excessive quoting removed by server]

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[Ted Roche]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 8:12 PM Fletcher Johnson <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Hi, Fletcher!

Post by Fletcher Johnson
Or you might ask them why Visual Studio is only a 32 bit application....

How does VS being "only" a 64-bit app limit developers? VS is basically a
glorified editor and project manager and front-end gui for the build and
compile tools. What would it gain by going 64-bit?

Seriously curious.

Maybe they are hoping we will all move to Linux and run our apps on Azure

Post by Fletcher Johnson
instead.... Much less work for them to support... All I know is that they
are doing their best to piss off everyone they can.

"One Microsoft Way"


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[Alan Bourke]

It's nothing to do with not being able to do it, it's because there is no real gain from doing it. Of course they could build a 64 bit IDE if they wanted.

https://www.infoq.com/news/2016/01/VS-64-bit
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

Post by Fletcher Johnson
Or you might ask them why Visual Studio is only a 32 bit application....
Yes, it can build 64 bit apps, but they can't figure out how to compile it
as a working 64 bit app. And if they can't fix that in all the time they
have had, how would you expect them to redo windows????
Maybe they are hoping we will all move to Linux and run our apps on Azure
instead.... Much less work for them to support... All I know is that they
are doing their best to piss off everyone they can.
Fletcher Johnson
LinkedIn.com/in/FletcherJohnson
beknown.com/FletcherJohnson
twitter.com/fletcherJ
twitter.com/svcsug
strava.com/athletes/fletcherjohnson
408-946-0960 - work
408-781-2345 - cell
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [NF] Broken Windows

Post by Man-wai Chang
Which means Micro$oft might need to rewrite it again? ;)

Well, they bought DOS, slapped a gui on it, sold that for nearly 20 years,
moving it from 16- to 32-bit, yay Win32s!
Windows, 2.0, 3.1, 3.1, 3.11, W4Workgroups, W4Tablets, w4Work, Win95, 98,
Millenium
They teamed up with IBM to write OS/2 later "WARP," using Windows New
Technology with the New Technology File System.
Then they torpedoed IBM and released it as Windows NT. And that's what we
are running today, Windows NT 3, 3.5, 3.51, 4, 7, Windows Vista, Windows 8,
Windows 10. They've glommed a lot of stuff on top, but it's Windows NT on
NTFS with its lousy security model, patched over with a new domain model
and Policy enforcement, but it's the Registry and LAN Man and the same old
print queue.
It's tens of millions of lines of code, written mostly by people who don't
work there any more. It's huge, it's heavy, it's buggy. And it runs on
Desktops. And Servers. And not much else. Not smartphones, not lightweight
tables, not the internet. Ignoring Windows CE (which still exists, running
my settop box -*shudder), WindowsPhone, and XBox OS, all speciality
spinoffs.
Perhaps they should rewrite it. Third time's the charm, or so they
mythology goes within MS.
Highly recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows for a
refresher on the history. Good overview.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com
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